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I cannot get any sound from my CYP AUD3 micro DAC, [was “digital is dead...” in fb2k: Support]
cl1ent
post Jan 25 2013, 15:23
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Noob here, so hello to all. I've been reading this forum for ages and now I need some help from you learned folk!
I have a Win 7 pc (Realtek HD onboard sound with optical out) and a bunch of 24/96 vinyl rips.
Playback via 3.5mm jack is just fine, but I have bought a CYP AUD3 micro dac (24/192) and I just can't get any sound out of it.
Connected like this - optical/dac/rca/amplifier. I have spent 2/3 of the day clicking on everything I can, but still no sound.
Would greatly appreciate any guidance from you guys.

Best regards
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Apesbrain
post Jan 25 2013, 16:07
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The DAC is powered (external 5V DC) and input switch set to "Optical"?
Is the Realtek configured to send all digital in PCM format (if such a setting is available)?
When you look at the end of the optical cable going into the DAC do you see red light?
Do you have another digital source that you could use for testing/diagnosis?
Anything you can use to verify that the DAC power supply is working?

You'd probably get more constructive replies by adhering to TOS#6.
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db1989
post Jan 25 2013, 16:24
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Is this actually specific to foobar2000, or should it be moved to Audio Hardware in the main forum?
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cl1ent
post Jan 25 2013, 16:36
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QUOTE (Apesbrain @ Jan 25 2013, 17:07) *
The DAC is powered (external 5V DC) and input switch set to "Optical"?
Is the Realtek configured to send all digital in PCM format (if such a setting is available)?
When you look at the end of the optical cable going into the DAC do you see red light?
Do you have another digital source that you could use for testing/diagnosis?
Anything you can use to verify that the DAC power supply is working?

You'd probably get more constructive replies by adhering to TOS#6.


Thanks. Yes, the switch is set to optical.
No, I can't see a PCM option in Realtek settings.
Yes, bright red light at the end of the cable.
No other digital source to test with.
Yes, powersupply is working as the optical indicator lights up when connected.
I'm thinking it may be software, something in the output of Foobar?
Will edit topic, thanks for the advice.
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cl1ent
post Jan 25 2013, 16:40
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 25 2013, 17:24) *
Is this actually specific to foobar2000, or should it be moved to Audio Hardware in the main forum?


Sorry about that db1989...
Don't mean to step on your shoes.
How would I move the topic to another section?
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Kohlrabi
post Jan 25 2013, 16:41
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 25 2013, 16:24) *
Is this actually specific to foobar2000, or should it be moved to Audio Hardware in the main forum?
Just move it.


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Apesbrain
post Jan 25 2013, 16:48
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QUOTE (cl1ent @ Jan 25 2013, 10:36) *
No other digital source to test with.
Do you have a DVD player with optical audio out?

QUOTE (cl1ent @ Jan 25 2013, 10:36) *
I'm thinking it may be software, something in the output of Foobar?
Have you tried another software player?
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cl1ent
post Jan 25 2013, 16:52
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QUOTE (Apesbrain @ Jan 25 2013, 17:48) *
QUOTE (cl1ent @ Jan 25 2013, 10:36) *
No other digital source to test with.
Do you have a DVD player with optical audio out?

QUOTE (cl1ent @ Jan 25 2013, 10:36) *
I'm thinking it may be software, something in the output of Foobar?
Have you tried another software player?


Found another source - tried my cd player optical out and that works, so the dac works.
I've tried VLC and WMP, same result - no sound via digital.

Also, can you tell me how to move this topic to the suggested section please?
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db1989
post Jan 25 2013, 17:01
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You can’t; I will.
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cl1ent
post Jan 25 2013, 17:02
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 25 2013, 18:01) *
You can’t; I will.


Thank you Sir!
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Apesbrain
post Jan 25 2013, 17:13
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If you haven't already done so:
Install the foobar2000 WASAPI component,
Go to File > Preferences > Playback > Output,
Try the newly listed WASAPI devices under "Device",
You may need to adjust "Output format" to a sample size your DAC will accept.
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cl1ent
post Jan 25 2013, 17:41
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QUOTE (Apesbrain @ Jan 25 2013, 18:13) *
If you haven't already done so:
Install the foobar2000 WASAPI component,
Go to File > Preferences > Playback > Output,
Try the newly listed WASAPI devices under "Device",
You may need to adjust "Output format" to a sample size your DAC will accept.


Thanks for you help so far, Apesbrain.
Ok, I've got wasapi, installed and played with 'event' and 'push' via Realtek Digital in 16 and 24bit under 'Devices'.
Still, no sound.
While testing I've disabled the Realtek analog output completely, just to make sure, and set Digital as preffered default.
The app indicates signal passing through the Digital side from FooBar, but sadly this does not transform into sound.
The Digital output on my pc works as I tried it with a friend's dac a few weeks ago.
I'm at wits end with this and have returned to analog output until the web can sort me out or I buy a usb dac.
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nagual
post Jan 25 2013, 22:46
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Have you tried 16/44.1 ?
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cl1ent
post Jan 26 2013, 00:08
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QUOTE (nagual @ Jan 25 2013, 23:46) *
Have you tried 16/44.1 ?


Tried them all, from 16/44.1 to 24/192. Still no sound.
I can't be that stupid or maybe?!
I have 'Shark' codec pack installed (to play flac through Xbox), could that be a conflict?
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cl1ent
post Jan 30 2013, 22:02
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Problem sorted!

So, what could it have been? Well, the sub-standard quality of items on sale today is the quick answer.
The long one is:
The fault was with the el-cheapo Cambridge Audio Toslink cable. Under close inspection, while moderately bending it, I could see the optic fiber moving in and out from one end!
I gently pulled on it and about 8cm of optical fiber extracted itself from the cable jacket.
When I tested the CYP dac on my cd player I used the coaxial terminal as my cd player doesn't have optical out.
This break in the fiber somehow allowed light (signal?) to pass through, but on the other end the dac would not compute.
To the bin the cable went and to Richer I went and returned with a QED Performance Graphite Toslink cable.
All works as it should now, oh, and I've got a real dac coming next week. Been eyeing the MF M1 for a while and I gave in.
Can't wait to do things properly!
Thanks to all who tried to resolve my problem, all suggestions were constructive and I will keep reading these great forums.

Regards
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DVDdoug
post Jan 31 2013, 00:06
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QUOTE
The fault was with the el-cheapo Cambridge Audio Toslink cable. Under close inspection, while moderately bending it, I could see the optic fiber moving in and out from one end! ...

...with a QED Performance Graphite Toslink cable.
For future reference, if you live in the U.S. Monoprice.com sells high-quality cables (of all kinds) for very-low prices. And with the low prices, I usually order a couple extra...

QUOTE
I've been reading this forum for ages...

.. and I've got a real dac coming next week. Been eyeing the MF M1 for a while and I gave in.
I assume you don't expect any difference in sound, unless your current DAC is defective. But, if you've got the extra cash, and you like the features, appearance, and build quality, etc., more power to you!
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cl1ent
post Jan 31 2013, 13:53
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QUOTE (DVDdoug @ Jan 31 2013, 01:06) *
QUOTE
The fault was with the el-cheapo Cambridge Audio Toslink cable. Under close inspection, while moderately bending it, I could see the optic fiber moving in and out from one end! ...

...with a QED Performance Graphite Toslink cable.
For future reference, if you live in the U.S. Monoprice.com sells high-quality cables (of all kinds) for very-low prices. And with the low prices, I usually order a couple extra...

QUOTE
I've been reading this forum for ages...

.. and I've got a real dac coming next week. Been eyeing the MF M1 for a while and I gave in.
I assume you don't expect any difference in sound, unless your current DAC is defective. But, if you've got the extra cash, and you like the features, appearance, and build quality, etc., more power to you!


Hi DVDdoug, I'm in the UK.
Regarding the MF M1 dac, I do expect an improvement in sound over my current CYP AUD3 dac. If I don't hear an improvement I'm sending it back and spending that money on music!
However, I think I will hear an improvement as I regard my current dac as the weak link in my system (Roksan Kandy K2 amplifier and B&W 685 speakers).
Also, I see the M1 as future-proofing my system. Again I stress that if I alone cannot hear an inprovement in sound once the M1 has been run in, I will be sending it back.
I don't spend money on things that don't add real value and I don't change gear very often, about every 5 years or so and have the current setup for 1 year now.
This whole cable experience had reminded me of a quote from my dad - "I'm too poor to buy cheap things."

Regards
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pdq
post Jan 31 2013, 14:10
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You must be very careful when doing your comparison. Unless this is a true blind test (i.e. you have no idea which you are listening to) expectation bias will almost certainly give you invalid results. Have someone else switch the signals for you, preferably where you can't see them.
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db1989
post Jan 31 2013, 14:14
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QUOTE (cl1ent @ Jan 31 2013, 12:53) *
Regarding the MF M1 dac, I do expect an improvement in sound over my current CYP AUD3 dac. If I don't hear an improvement I'm sending it back and spending that money on music!
However, I think I will hear an improvement as I regard my current dac as the weak link in my system
This almost certainly is not really the case. If you still feel the need to test it, do so by a valid method, otherwise the result will not be reliable, and you may just be throwing money away. We have numerous previous threads about both the audible performance of DACs and how to perform blind listening tests, so I recommend that you research those before ordering anything.
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cl1ent
post Jan 31 2013, 14:50
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 31 2013, 15:14) *
QUOTE (cl1ent @ Jan 31 2013, 12:53) *
Regarding the MF M1 dac, I do expect an improvement in sound over my current CYP AUD3 dac. If I don't hear an improvement I'm sending it back and spending that money on music!
However, I think I will hear an improvement as I regard my current dac as the weak link in my system
This almost certainly is not really the case. If you still feel the need to test it, do so by a valid method, otherwise the result will not be reliable, and you may just be throwing money away. We have numerous previous threads about both the audible performance of DACs and how to perform blind listening tests, so I recommend that you research those before ordering anything.


What I meant by a sound improvement if simply if it sounds better to me, an individual. This is for my home/office where I spend a good 10 hrs a day, basically a workstation in my lounge.
I don't have the equipment or knowledge to lab test anything, but I can appreciate dynamics, soundstage depth, tonal balance and timing.
Leaving bias and purchase excitement aside, this is just a piece of electronic equipment at the end of the day. If it makes a enjoyable change in my personal listening experience, then I think it to be worth the investment. If not, back in the box and back to the shop with no hard feelings!
In the mean time I will be reading up on blind listening test here.

Regards
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Nessuno
post Jan 31 2013, 14:51
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QUOTE (pdq @ Jan 31 2013, 14:10) *
You must be very careful when doing your comparison. Unless this is a true blind test (i.e. you have no idea which you are listening to) expectation bias will almost certainly give you invalid results. Have someone else switch the signals for you, preferably where you can't see them.

And, which could be quite difficult in a home environment, find a way to match the analog output level of both, or you might end up preferring the one which simply sounds louder (i.e. an improvement you can have with the other one, rotating a little the volume knob! wink.gif).


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pdq
post Jan 31 2013, 17:36
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QUOTE (cl1ent @ Jan 31 2013, 08:50) *
What I meant by a sound improvement if simply if it sounds better to me, an individual. This is for my home/office where I spend a good 10 hrs a day, basically a workstation in my lounge.
I don't have the equipment or knowledge to lab test anything, but I can appreciate dynamics, soundstage depth, tonal balance and timing.
Leaving bias and purchase excitement aside, this is just a piece of electronic equipment at the end of the day. If it makes a enjoyable change in my personal listening experience, then I think it to be worth the investment. If not, back in the box and back to the shop with no hard feelings!
In the mean time I will be reading up on blind listening test here.

Regards

That's fine, as long as you understand that the odds of your making your decision based on on a real, audible difference are negligible.
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greynol
post Jan 31 2013, 17:57
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QUOTE (cl1ent @ Jan 31 2013, 05:50) *
I can appreciate dynamics, soundstage depth, tonal balance and timing.

You are not going to hear any differences in these things in a properly controlled double blind test. That you chose these specific "audiophile" terms suggests to me that you will imagine that you hear differences in an uncontrolled sighted test, which would be quite unfortunate, since your money is absolutely better spent elsewhere.

While you might not feel that knowledgable in testing, you could empower yourself and read a few things about expectation bias.


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cl1ent
post Jan 31 2013, 20:25
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QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 31 2013, 18:57) *
QUOTE (cl1ent @ Jan 31 2013, 05:50) *
I can appreciate dynamics, soundstage depth, tonal balance and timing.

You are not going to hear any differences in these things in a properly controlled double blind test. That you chose these specific "audiophile" terms suggests to me that you will imagine that you hear differences in an uncontrolled sighted test, which would be quite unfortunate, since your money is absolutely better spent elsewhere.

While you might not feel that knowledgable in testing, you could empower yourself and read a few things about expectation bias.


Seems everyone is here to prove me wrong on something that hasn't hapened yet...
Believe me, I'm of a very analytical and subjective nature, so I will not be imaginig hearing things. Well, maybe in my golden years!
Simple as - if I like the sound I get with the new dac (including the sound signature of the electronics) I will keep it. If not I will spend my money elsewhere.
What could you suggest I spend this money on, other than music, if the dac experience is bogus?
I'm not into headphones as I listen to music all day while I work, so cans would not work for me.
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pdq
post Jan 31 2013, 20:47
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Absolutely, the one thing that you should spend the most on is speakers. The differences made by any other part of your system pale in comparison. The next biggest contributor is room acoustics.
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