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Backup on USB-harddrive, how2
John Doe
post Feb 22 2006, 22:11
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I read all the nice backup threads but I didn't really get the help I need.

I have:
A desktop PC / WinXP with music and other data on different volumes.
An external USB 2.0 - Harddrive / 250GB

I want:
A backup of all of my music (about 80GB) and some data.
Files should be usable on other computers (work), that means only copied to the drive...
It should somehow be synchronized like a differential backup / scheduled.
Optional: File corruption detection (QuickPar or similar).

My questions:
How do I perform that task with as little effort and time as possible?
Which kind of (please basic) software do I need for that task?


Hope someone can give a clear explanation.

Thanx,

JD
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Synthetic Soul
post Feb 22 2006, 22:43
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It sounds to me as though you just need a syncing app, to keep a folder on your PC and a folder on your external hard drive in sync.

This thead has a couple of suggestions. I recommend you go with mine, because I always make good sense.

The WMP idea sounded like a potential as well though.

This obviously doesn't take into account the PAR2 suggestion, but if you want something quick and simple, then I think a simple synching routine should be just the job really.


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rutra80
post Feb 22 2006, 23:38
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The most basic method that comes to my mind, for which you don't need any software at all, is to use Windows briefcase & scheduler.
Total Commander also has a simple synchronisation feature, but no scheduling.
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John Doe
post Feb 22 2006, 23:38
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QUOTE (Synthetic Soul)
[...]because I always make good sense

Um there's someone who is REALLY selfconfident! wink.gif

Oh, haven't seen that thread...this one is close to a double post then! Sorry! But not REALLY maybe...

>tried SyncToy and it needs .net-framework v1.something, I already have v2.0. Maybe there are other freeware suggestions exept Microsoft-ware...

JD


Thank you anyways!


/edit: content, quote

This post has been edited by John Doe: Feb 22 2006, 23:58
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John Doe
post Feb 22 2006, 23:39
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QUOTE (rutra80 @ Feb 22 2006, 02:38 PM)
The most basic method that comes to my mind, for which you don't need any software at all, is to use Windows briefcase & scheduler.
Total Commander also has a simple synchronisation feature, but no scheduling.
*

But isn't the briefcase somehow different to a normal folder?
> just tried it out and the Briefcase is useless in the Explorer View for example.


JD

/edit: italic

This post has been edited by John Doe: Feb 22 2006, 23:54
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rutra80
post Feb 23 2006, 00:03
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QUOTE (John Doe @ Feb 23 2006, 12:39 AM)
> just tried it out and the Briefcase is useless in the Explorer View for example.
*

What do you mean?
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John Doe
post Feb 23 2006, 00:06
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I still want to use the data as a normal folder - I have to use it at work and sync it at home...
But you cannot expand the folders contained in a Briefcase...


JD
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rutra80
post Feb 23 2006, 00:12
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Hmm, expands here like a charm, you probably couldn't expand them because they were empty [:
Briefcase is a normal folder really, there are just some additional (hidden) database files inside so it can keep track of synchronisation.
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John Doe
post Feb 23 2006, 00:18
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>>>Stupid me!!!<<<
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Skuzzle-butt
post Feb 23 2006, 06:16
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QUOTE (John Doe @ Feb 22 2006, 02:11 PM)
My questions:
How do I perform that task with as little effort and time as possible?
Which kind of (please basic) software do I need for that task?


Hope someone can give a clear explanation.

*


This free utility will do the job nicely.
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John Doe
post Feb 23 2006, 11:00
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QUOTE (Skuzzle-butt @ Feb 22 2006, 09:16 PM)
This free utility will do the job nicely.
*


Uhm tried the tool and THIS:

wasn't very promising! >already an error in the first seconds that stopped me from using it.

PLUS: I couldn't see if the program syncs in both directions?!

Isn't there a way to include error detection in the process? Or would that be to resource consuming?

JD
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Synthetic Soul
post Feb 23 2006, 11:14
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I'd just stick on the .NET 1.1 redist and be done with it.

Why did you not go for Briefcase? I've never used Briefcase. If it's there and it works though...

I find it curious that Briefcase can do the job, yet they release SyncToy. blink.gif


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John Doe
post Feb 23 2006, 11:26
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I don't really know...
Maybe it's just to simple?! wink.gif

But on the other hand ... I'm testing it!


JD
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RedFox
post Feb 23 2006, 13:06
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I suggest you try SyncBack (free version), it's very efficient & robust.
You get a log at the end of the synch job, you can schedule them, you can exclude file or folders, run a program after and/or before, etc.
Very nice app. smile.gif


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John Doe
post Feb 23 2006, 15:30
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QUOTE (RedFox @ Feb 23 2006, 04:06 AM)
I suggest you try SyncBack (free version), it's very efficient & robust.
You get a log at the end of the synch job, you can schedule them, you can exclude file or folders, run a program after and/or before, etc.
Very nice app. smile.gif
*


Thanks for the hint. Seems to be quite reliable.

Tried two different settings:

- Synchronize files: in both directions.
Problem: When you rename a file, the prog doesn't recognise that but copies both versions in both directories. Means: Every time you rename a file you would duplicate that file by syncing.

- Backup files: in one direction.
Problem: When renaming a file in the source it will be replaced in the destination. Thus if the source file got corrupted, the backup will be replaced with a corrupted file.

Is there a chance that the prog recognizes pure renaming and RENAMES the backup file PLUS doesn't duplicate files in the sync process?


JD
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Synthetic Soul
post Feb 23 2006, 15:47
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QUOTE
SyncToy can manage multiple sets of folders at the same time; it can combine files from two folders in one case, and mimic renames and deletes in another. Unlike other applications, SyncToy actually keeps track of renames to files and will make sure those changes get carried over to the synchronized folder.
lalala.gif ...


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John Doe
post Feb 23 2006, 17:31
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Ok Synthetic, I decided to use SyncToy eventhough I don't like to install even more Microsoft stuff...espcially the .net-Framework thingy sucks.

But the Renaming-Function really made it! I use that for Backup!

So, if anyone knows a program that is capable of the same functions (freeware) let me know!
> would be nice if the prog wouldn't need extra installation, cause there are situations when you cannot install software!

For syncing I'll try a batch-file I got from a friend with the xcopy-function:

Doesn't need any installation of software: just simple!



JD
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Synthetic Soul
post Feb 23 2006, 17:42
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I'm not really sure I understand all your post.

If you are using SyncToy anyway then why do you also need a batch file? Or is that for an alternative use?

It's true, a batch file is an easy way to copy from Folder A to Folder B. A dedicated application like SyncToy wil sync in either direction of course (in Synchronize mode; you may choose to use Echo or Contribute mode instead).

With regard to the .NET framework: it does seem crazy that you have to have both 1.1 and 2. However, I see more and more applications requiring a framework now, so I think it is inevitable that you will need the frameworks to run freeware applications on Windows XP in the near future.


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John Doe
post Feb 24 2006, 07:42
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I can't install any software on a remote computer where I have to sync my data to the external drive, too. Therefore the batch-file might be a simple solution!

I have both of the .net thingys installed - what exactly is it anyway?


JD
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Synthetic Soul
post Feb 24 2006, 10:19
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Yeah, good point I guess. You didn't mention a hypothetical third PC!

The .NET frameworks are basically a layer that sit on your OS (e.g.: Windows) that allow you to run .NET applications. When you run an application that has been written in .NET the framework is used to compile the application for the OS on which it resides just before it is executed. This is called the JIT (Just In Time compiler). The idea being that you can have different frameworks for different OS's, but the application is always the same (it is stored in MSIL (Microsoft Intermediate Language) although it may have been written in C#, VB.NET, perl, python, C++, Haskell, etc.).

So, in essence, the framework is like an interpreter between the .NET application and the OS on which it is currently running.

The big idea was that you could write an application and it could run on Windows, *nix, Mac, etc. - using the same EXE. However, it seems to still be just a Windows thing.


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John Doe
post Feb 24 2006, 12:52
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thanks that was that was very comprehensably illustrated!

Maybe I should open a new topic for that but maybe it's easily answered:

What would be the best solution to verify my data by hashing or something?
PAR2 really costs to much time and I don't think I need recovery funtions...

Should the source or the backup/destination be checked?
Would music files with changed ID3 tags disable the hashing?


JD
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Synthetic Soul
post Feb 24 2006, 14:06
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QUOTE (John Doe @ Feb 24 2006, 11:52 AM)
What would be the best solution to verify my data by hashing or something?
PAR2 really costs to much time and I don't think I need recovery funtions...

Should the source or the backup/destination be checked?
Would music files with changed ID3 tags disable the hashing?
I think this may warrant another thread, but I suppose you did originally speak of PAR.

Unfortunately, if you change the files by tagging, you will remove any use for a normal hash calculator, or PAR2 data, which cannot distinguish between corruption and a tag change. I.e.: if you change one character in a tag a normal file hash calculator will report the difference just as it would if the audio data had corrupted.

I don't really know what a resolve would be to this. LAME MP3s have an inbuilt CRC that only refers to the audio data (IIRC), and its possible that you could use an application, if one exists, that would check that checksum to tell whether it has corrupted.

Are you interested in whether the synchronisation ran correctly, or just checking whether a file has become corrupt over time by checking it's peer on the external drive?

If you are synching then I guess you could do a test in SyncToy to report which files have changed, and manually detirmine whether you made that change or not... Apart from that I am out of ideas.


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John Doe
post Feb 24 2006, 19:09
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QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Feb 24 2006, 05:06 AM)
I don't really know what a resolve would be to this.  LAME MP3s have an inbuilt CRC that only refers to the audio data (IIRC), and its possible that you could use an application, if one exists, that would check that checksum to tell whether it has corrupted.

If that would be possible there must be a safety geek who used that somehow! wink.gif I mean check this forum there's so much about the perfect backup!

QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Feb 24 2006, 05:06 AM)
Are you interested in whether the synchronisation ran correctly, or just checking whether a file has become corrupt over time by checking it's peer on the external drive?

The latter!

QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Feb 24 2006, 05:06 AM)
If you are synching then I guess you could do a test in SyncToy to report which files have changed, and manually detirmine whether you made that change or not... Apart from that I am out of ideas.

I would want to use that more for the oneway backup-version. Not for syncing!



JD
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Skuzzle-butt
post Feb 25 2006, 05:38
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QUOTE (John Doe @ Feb 23 2006, 03:00 AM)
wasn't very promising! >already an error in the first seconds that stopped me from using it.

PLUS: I couldn't see if the program syncs in both directions?!
*


Sorry to hear it didn't work for you. I've used that program for several years and it hasn't given me any problems. It is possible to sync in either direction, but it means making separate jobs for each direction.

Checking the Replicator's website just now, I see that 3.3.4 is the current version. I'm still using 2.2.3 so maybe that's the difference. I'll check it out and reply back here if I get the same error you did.
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