IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Most revealing detailed headphone under 500$
goodkeys
post Apr 9 2013, 20:47
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 9-April 13
Member No.: 107596



This forum has already been a great help in deciding on what I really need. Of course I could post at other hifi- or headphone-forums. But there advice is often highly biased and often leads to recommendations of thrice the price. Anyway.

I'm looking for a headphone for under 500$. I use it to listen to classical music, and I'd use the amp of my Blue Sky eXo2 monitor system. What I'm looking for: very detailed, analytical, revealing headphones with an as wide as possible yet accurate stage. And all this with an as neutral as possible FR. I've already listened to the AKG K701, which I like, but they were unbearably uncomfortable. The HD600 on the other hand was less detailed and more forgiving to my ears. Also the stage was not as wide as with the AKGs. One thing I noted with the AKG: while the stage was nice and wide, the sounds seemed to come from behind me. Are there any headphones that can create a room in front of the listener?

Might the Beyer DT-880 be an option? Any other models? Bear in mind that I want to be able to exactly locate every instrument in the mix. And the phones should reveal bad mixes, not colour them to sound nice...
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Arnold B. Kruege...
post Apr 9 2013, 21:02
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 4253
Joined: 29-October 08
From: USA, 48236
Member No.: 61311



QUOTE (goodkeys @ Apr 9 2013, 15:47) *
This forum has already been a great help in deciding on what I really need. Of course I could post at other hifi- or headphone-forums. But there advice is often highly biased and often leads to recommendations of thrice the price. Anyway.

I'm looking for a headphone for under 500$. I use it to listen to classical music, and I'd use the amp of my Blue Sky eXo2 monitor system. What I'm looking for: very detailed, analytical, revealing headphones with an as wide as possible yet accurate stage. And all this with an as neutral as possible FR. I've already listened to the AKG K701, which I like, but they were unbearably uncomfortable. The HD600 on the other hand was less detailed and more forgiving to my ears. Also the stage was not as wide as with the AKGs. One thing I noted with the AKG: while the stage was nice and wide, the sounds seemed to come from behind me. Are there any headphones that can create a room in front of the listener?

Might the Beyer DT-880 be an option? Any other models? Bear in mind that I want to be able to exactly locate every instrument in the mix. And the phones should reveal bad mixes, not colour them to sound nice...


My new Sennheiser HD380s seem to be raising the bar for resolving inner detail for me.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
testyou
post Apr 9 2013, 21:09
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 99
Joined: 24-September 10
Member No.: 84113



You are mentioning colours in your post; this is highly subjective, of course.
You might want to consult frequency response graphs, and go to a store where you can try the headphones without equalization.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
eahm
post Apr 9 2013, 21:18
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 1156
Joined: 11-February 12
Member No.: 97076



I liked the HD280 better than the HD380.

One of my favorites are the Audio-Technica ATH-M50.

For that price get the HD650: http://www.headphone.com/selection-guide/t...audiophiles.php

This post has been edited by eahm: Apr 9 2013, 21:20
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
LithosZA
post Apr 9 2013, 21:32
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 200
Joined: 26-February 11
Member No.: 88525



QUOTE
I liked the HD280 better than the HD380.

+1

QUOTE

The HD650 might be more flat in graphs, but I personally found my HD280s more revealing of details than my HD650s. Just my opinion.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
DVDdoug
post Apr 9 2013, 21:34
Post #6





Group: Members
Posts: 2674
Joined: 24-August 07
From: Silicon Valley
Member No.: 46454



QUOTE (goodkeys @ Apr 9 2013, 12:47) *
...with an as wide as possible yet accurate stage.

...Also the stage was not as wide as with the AKGs. One thing I noted with the AKG: while the stage was nice and wide, the sounds seemed to come from behind me. Are there any headphones that can create a room in front of the listener?

...I want to be able to exactly locate every instrument in the mix.

I believe that "soundstage" and stereo positioning vary with the listener. Obviously it's only an illusion, since there are only two channels. With the same speakers/headphones, one person might get a great illusion, and another person might not.

With headphones it's even trickier, because head movement is an important part of normal sound location and with headphones the sound-source moves with your head. (This is the main reason surround headphones don't work, unless you have head tracking to adjust the signals when you move your head.)

This article talks about panning and the phantom image (with speakers)...
QUOTE
...when the dust finally settled I had found out something quite interesting: that as long as the difference between channels is less than 3 decibels, the phantom image hovers pretty much in the middle point between the two speakers...

... With between 3 and 6 decibels difference in levels, the phantom quickly and without much stability migrated to the louder speaker, hovering just inboard of that speaker, and once the difference was greater than 7 decibels, the phantom was for all intents and purposes coming from the louder speaker.


This post has been edited by DVDdoug: Apr 9 2013, 21:38
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
goodkeys
post Apr 9 2013, 22:19
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 9-April 13
Member No.: 107596



I know that the HD600/650 would be a save bet. However, compared to the K701 they lacked in stage, plus to me the K701 was actually more detailed. So I preferred the AKGs sound over the Sennheiser, even though they were much more comfortable.
According to Golden Ears FR graphs the HD600 seems to be the most accurate/flat headphone in the world. Graphs on other sites vary, so not sure what to make out of this.
Out of curiosity I gave the H800's a short listen too, and what completely impressed me was the "out of the head localisation"-sort of. While with the AKGs all sounds seemed to come from behind me, with the HD800 they actually sounded like coming from a room in front of me. Very spatial, and wide too. I guess there's no phone in my pricerange that can do a similar thing (not sure how the HD800 manages to do that)?
How do the Beyerdynamics DT 880 compare to the K701? I haven't heard them but read that they are very detailed too and have a wide stage. The FR graphs show a nasty peak at 10 KHz though. Again not sure what to make of this
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Satellite_6
post Apr 9 2013, 22:21
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 63
Joined: 13-September 10
From: VA, USA
Member No.: 83831



Perhaps try the AKG K 601's for a wide sound stage and hopefully they will be more comfortable for you than the K 701's, but they are certainly not as detailed as the Senns.

The HD 650's have my favorite sound stage even though it is not particularly wide but they are very musical not analytical.




--------------------
FLAC -> JDS Labs ODAC/O2 -> Sennheiser HD 650
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Porcus
post Apr 9 2013, 23:18
Post #9





Group: Members
Posts: 1957
Joined: 30-November 06
Member No.: 38207



Analytic and revealing? How much Stax can you get for $500 nowadays? I am not sure if that's something you should buy unheard on eBay though.

(And if you do: they require their dedicated amps (/step-ups)! Like one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STAX-SRS-005S-IN-T...3-/390542090749
Edit: And if you try to use your own 12V power, beware the negative-center polarity.)

This post has been edited by Porcus: Apr 9 2013, 23:20


--------------------
One day in the Year of the Fox came a time remembered well
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
MikeFord
post Apr 9 2013, 23:18
Post #10





Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: 22-May 04
Member No.: 14241



QUOTE (goodkeys @ Apr 9 2013, 14:19) *
I know that the HD600/650 would be a save bet. However, compared to the K701 they lacked in stage, plus to me the K701 was actually more detailed. So I preferred the AKGs sound over the Sennheiser, even though they were much more comfortable.
According to Golden Ears FR graphs the HD600 seems to be the most accurate/flat headphone in the world. Graphs on other sites vary, so not sure what to make out of this.
Out of curiosity I gave the H800's a short listen too, and what completely impressed me was the "out of the head localisation"-sort of. While with the AKGs all sounds seemed to come from behind me, with the HD800 they actually sounded like coming from a room in front of me. Very spatial, and wide too. I guess there's no phone in my pricerange that can do a similar thing (not sure how the HD800 manages to do that)?
How do the Beyerdynamics DT 880 compare to the K701? I haven't heard them but read that they are very detailed too and have a wide stage. The FR graphs show a nasty peak at 10 KHz though. Again not sure what to make of this

Headphones seem to have a huge degree of personal preference, but I question two terms you have used, detailed and sound stage. Electrostatic headphones sometimes have a edgy quality that might be interpreted as detail, but for the most part detail is going to be tied to frequency response. Binaural recording can have a big sound stage, but most made for speakers recording are going to have a sound stage between the ears, all in your head, unless some kind of cross feed delay circuit is used.

A brief google is not telling me the Blue Sky eXo2 is well known for use with headphones. I don't know the circuit or the product, but its not unusual for a headphone output to be no more than a current limiting resistor from some opamp designed to drive a line level impedance. HD600 like a real amp output with no current issues.

My suggestion would be to buy some decent little dedicated headphone amp, maybe one with the cross feed circuit unless that is hopelessly old school, and listen to some good headphones to see what suits you, and be sure to try some real electrostats.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
extrabigmehdi
post Apr 10 2013, 01:50
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 409
Joined: 15-August 09
Member No.: 72330



The srh940 are revealing, but don't have a wide soundstage (i.e out of head experience) because they are closed. The open equivalent, is above 500$
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
goodkeys
post Apr 10 2013, 07:37
Post #12





Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 9-April 13
Member No.: 107596



Then the SRH940 might be my go-to portable phones. But as for now I'd like to have a wide stage too for home listening.

A Stax is sadly no option for me as they can't be auditioned in switzerland and I'm not gonna buy some unheard. But are there any electrostats in my pricerange? What about a HE-400 or HE-500? Are they analytical and revealing with a wide soundstage? And again: hoe does a DT880 compare to a K701? Could it be a suitable choice?

This post has been edited by goodkeys: Apr 10 2013, 07:46
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
markanini
post Apr 10 2013, 07:53
Post #13





Group: Members
Posts: 554
Joined: 22-December 03
From: Malmö, Sweden
Member No.: 10615



No contest, Etymotic ER4.

This post has been edited by markanini: Apr 10 2013, 07:58
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Kohlrabi
post Apr 10 2013, 08:24
Post #14





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 1110
Joined: 12-March 05
From: Kiel, Germany
Member No.: 20561



I'm happy with my KRK KNS 6400s, and since they're sub-100$, I could get even more CDs and bandcamp music. smile.gif


--------------------
It's only audiophile if it's inconvenient.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
extrabigmehdi
post Apr 10 2013, 13:11
Post #15





Group: Members
Posts: 409
Joined: 15-August 09
Member No.: 72330



QUOTE (Kohlrabi @ Apr 10 2013, 07:24) *
I'm happy with my KRK KNS 6400s, and since they're sub-100$, I could get even more CDs and bandcamp music. smile.gif



It's closed, so no big soundstage too.
There's one closed headphone supposed to have a big soundstage ( according to the marketing and reviews) it's the AKG K550.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Satellite_6
post Apr 10 2013, 14:43
Post #16





Group: Members
Posts: 63
Joined: 13-September 10
From: VA, USA
Member No.: 83831



Well certainly avoid IEM's and HiFiMAN. :\ No detail there.


--------------------
FLAC -> JDS Labs ODAC/O2 -> Sennheiser HD 650
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Arnold B. Kruege...
post Apr 10 2013, 16:30
Post #17





Group: Members
Posts: 4253
Joined: 29-October 08
From: USA, 48236
Member No.: 61311



QUOTE (eahm @ Apr 9 2013, 16:18) *
I liked the HD280 better than the HD380.


Interesting. I have both, and reverse prefrence.

QUOTE
One of my favorites are the Audio-Technica ATH-M50.


Got those too, and prefer the 380s. M50s are almost open-ear and have the light bass to show for it.


QUOTE


No way is the price of the 380s anything like that of the 650s.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
goodkeys
post Apr 10 2013, 16:52
Post #18





Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 9-April 13
Member No.: 107596



IEMs and closed are not really an option for me. The K550 was quite good soundstage-wise, but then again I prefer the K701. May add the M50 and the HD280/380 to my list
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
eahm
post Apr 10 2013, 17:27
Post #19





Group: Members
Posts: 1156
Joined: 11-February 12
Member No.: 97076



QUOTE
QUOTE


No way is the price of the 380s anything like that of the 650s.

$500
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
IgorC
post Apr 10 2013, 18:00
Post #20





Group: Members
Posts: 1578
Joined: 3-January 05
From: ARG/RUS
Member No.: 18803



I had prefer HD 650 over 701 because the self-adjusting headband of the last doesn't suit me. A properties of sound also depend of how one wears headphones. And the neutrality of 650' has no value.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
MikeFord
post Apr 10 2013, 19:35
Post #21





Group: Members
Posts: 132
Joined: 22-May 04
Member No.: 14241



Maybe not make a single leap to a high end canal phone, but you should try some. Even the super cheap CX200 Sennheiser should give you a taste of the differences.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
markanini
post Apr 10 2013, 22:10
Post #22





Group: Members
Posts: 554
Joined: 22-December 03
From: Malmö, Sweden
Member No.: 10615



Or the Etymotic HF series, can be found for $80.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Ed Seedhouse
post Apr 10 2013, 23:53
Post #23





Group: Members
Posts: 173
Joined: 19-May 09
Member No.: 69959



QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Apr 10 2013, 04:11) *
It's closed, so no big soundstage too.
There's one closed headphone supposed to have a big soundstage ( according to the marketing and reviews) it's the AKG K550.


Um, what actual evidence do you have that a closed back headphone cannot have a wide soundstage? I know of no physical or acoustic reason why this should be so. Remember TOS 8?




--------------------
Ed Seedhouse
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
goodkeys
post Apr 11 2013, 10:43
Post #24





Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 9-April 13
Member No.: 107596



I prefer the K701s sound over the K550. I'm hoping that the Dt880 is somewhere between a K701 and a HD600, i.e. that it has the revealing qualities and wide soundstage of the former, and the neutral fr and comfyness of the latter. Can anybody comment on this?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Mach-X
post Apr 11 2013, 11:09
Post #25





Group: Members
Posts: 288
Joined: 29-July 12
From: Windsor, On, Ca
Member No.: 101859



QUOTE (Ed Seedhouse @ Apr 10 2013, 18:53) *
QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Apr 10 2013, 04:11) *
It's closed, so no big soundstage too.
There's one closed headphone supposed to have a big soundstage ( according to the marketing and reviews) it's the AKG K550.


Um, what actual evidence do you have that a closed back headphone cannot have a wide soundstage? I know of no physical or acoustic reason why this should be so. Remember TOS 8?

Are you serious or just a new user horny to whip out the tos 8 card. Granted I'm not an open back fan because it defeats the purpose of personal listening. I'd rather just have speakers in a room. But take any open back headphones and then cover the back up and tell me it doesn't sound different. Ridiculous.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd November 2014 - 22:01