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mppenc 1.04, mppdec 1.04, WinAMP plugins 0.94, XMMS plugin 0
Case
post May 27 2002, 23:05
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* Files with PNS are marked as SV 7.1 to prevent confusion with old decoders
* URL for download displayed on unknown StreamVersions
* Bug fixes in XMMS
* mppenc now needs less bitrate while at least maintaining the quality
* smart help screens for mppenc
* Changed overwrite behavior of mppenc

http://www.uni-jena.de/~pfk/MPP/



* Update: Improved 1.06 available *
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Case
post May 27 2002, 23:23
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Compiled Windows binaries for 16...32 bit decoders available here.
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CiTay
post May 28 2002, 00:07
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There seems to be a weird little bug in the latest Winamp plug-ins, concerning filenames.

I noticed that if an MPC file doesn't have any tags, the plugin tries to fill in the fields by itself. It can 'guess' the album name/year, song artist/title and number from the foldername and filename.

Works pretty good, but today i played an album where the songs had these names:

01 Notorious B.I.G. - Notorious Thugs.mpc
02 Notorious B.I.G. - Miss U.mpc
03 Notorious B.I.G. - Another.mpc
...

The plugin failed in retrieving the tag info, displaying this playlist:

1. Mpc 2 - - Notorious Thugs
2. Mpc 2 - - Miss U
3. Mpc 2 - - Another


In the "Info" tab of Winamp, it was all mixed up, for instance: Track #: "03 Notorious B.I.G", Title: "- Another", Artist: "Mpc 2".

I reckon this is because of the extra dots in the filename... but what can i do, that's what the guy is (was) called. rolleyes.gif
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Case
post May 28 2002, 00:13
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QUOTE
Originally posted by CiTay
In the "Info" tab of Winamp, it was all mixed up, for instance: Track #: "03 Notorious B.I.G", Title: "- Another", Artist: "Mpc 2".

I reckon this is because of the extra dots in the filename... but what can i do, that's what the guy is (was) called. rolleyes.gif

Thanks for reporting, I had included one naming scheme in the middle of the old ones and that caused the problem. It should be fixed in this version.
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gdougherty
post May 28 2002, 00:57
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Is it possible to directly convert older files into the new version to pick up the space savings?
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CiTay
post May 28 2002, 01:33
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Case

Thanks for reporting, I had included one naming scheme in the middle of the old ones and that caused the problem. It should be fixed in this version.


Ah yes, the bug is fixed. Thanks! smile.gif
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Ruse
post May 28 2002, 01:50
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Chemical Brothers "Dig Your Own Hole" - Electronica, Trip-Hop:

mppenc 1.02 --xtreme (no tweaks): 86.0 MB; 190 kbps ave
mppenc 1.04 --xtreme (no tweaks): 74.8 MB; 164 kbps ave

What have you done, Frank, to reduce the encoded file sizes?
Great work.

Addendum:

Richard Thompson "Mock Tudor" - British Folk/Rock:

mppenc 1.02 --xtreme (no tweaks): 80.3 MB; 204 kbps ave
mppenc 1.04 --xtreme (no tweaks): 78.3 MB; 198 kbps ave

Apparently the aggressive bitrate savings are to be had in electronica, not folk/rock.


--------------------
Ruse
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macdaddy
post May 28 2002, 03:04
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My mileage is a little less impressive, but I use a command-line with more overkill:

--insane --nmt 16 --tmn 32 --verbose --verbose

I encoded a live show that was an hour duration. With 1.02, the file size was 136MB; with 1.04 the file size is 134MB. It would appear then, that the new encoder makes more of a difference shaving the bitrate with less aggressive settings...

The sound quality is superb, as always. Case, the 24-bit decoder works fine, too. Many thanks.
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experttech
post May 28 2002, 04:20
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Ruse

mppenc 1.02 --xtreme (no tweaks): 86.0 MB; 190 kbps ave
mppenc 1.04 --xtreme (no tweaks): 74.8 MB; 164 kbps ave


Now thats a significant reduction. These bitrates (164) more or less fall into the 'standard' category. Now if there's no difference in sound quality, thats a really good achievement. But is so ?

Or is Frank trying to prove that the 'standard' bitrates are indeed 'no different' than the 'xtreme' bitrates as far as quality is concerned ? biggrin.gif

Anyone checked out the bitrate differences for 'standard' ?
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rjamorim
post May 28 2002, 04:41
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http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/showth...15496#post15496

I think the developers liked Garf's suggestion. biggrin.gif


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macdaddy
post May 28 2002, 05:03
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QUOTE
Originally posted by rjamorim
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/showth...15496#post15496

I think the developers liked Garf's suggestion. biggrin.gif

Is that why the bitrate decreased?
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rjamorim
post May 28 2002, 05:14
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QUOTE
Originally posted by macdaddy

Is that why the bitrate decreased?


I doubt. I was just kidding. smile.gif


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Ruse
post May 28 2002, 05:30
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QUOTE
Originally posted by rjamorim
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/showth...15496#post15496

I think the developers liked Garf's suggestion. biggrin.gif

Not a bad idea of Garf's!

Trouble is in this instance, the --xtreme setting --verbose comments confirm that --xtreme is still nmt 8, tmn 20, and other parameters appear unchanged: so what has happened?


--------------------
Ruse
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rjamorim
post May 28 2002, 05:33
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Ruse

Trouble is in this instance, the --xtreme setting --verbose comments confirm that --xtreme is still nmt 8, tmn 20, and other parameters appear unchanged: so what has happened?


Verbose was fux0red to give you the impression it's encoding with those parameters. biggrin.gif
(kidding again...)


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Dibrom
post May 28 2002, 10:04
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Ruse
Chemical Brothers "Dig Your Own Hole" - Electronica, Trip-Hop:

mppenc 1.02 --xtreme (no tweaks): 86.0 MB; 190 kbps ave
mppenc 1.04 --xtreme (no tweaks): 74.8 MB; 164 kbps ave

[...]

Apparently the aggressive bitrate savings are to be had in electronica, not folk/rock.


Bola "Fyuti" - IDM

mppenc 1.02 --xtreme: 85.4 MB; 205.8 kbps
mppenc 1.04 --xtreme: 81.2 MB; 196.3 kbps

Another electronic album... not quite as much of a savings either so the bit reduction here don't seem to quite be universal, but it's still not bad.

I haven't really had a chance to scrutinze the quality or encode much else though so I'll have to give that a shot and see how it works out.
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Q!
post May 28 2002, 13:52
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> Anyone checked out the bitrate differences for 'standard' ?

A-ha 'Lifelines ' --standard

(just one track, how do I check the average bitrate for the whole album?)

1.02 - 171.7kbps, 5.28mb
1.04 - 158.3kbps, 4.86mb


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CiTay
post May 28 2002, 14:01
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Q!

(just one track, how do I check the average bitrate for the whole album?)


Download EncSpot: http://www.guerillasoft.com/EncSpot2/EncSp...Basic%202.0.zip

It can not only do MP3 analyzing, but also basic MPC analyzing. It shows the average bitrate for a folder in the lower left corner of it's window.
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Q!
post May 28 2002, 17:15
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Thanks!

A-ha 'Lifelines ' (--standard)
1.02 - 76.4MB, 173.0kbps
1.04 - 68.4MB, 154.7kbps


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Frank Klemm
post May 28 2002, 17:23
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QUOTE
Originally posted by CiTay


Download EncSpot: http://www.guerillasoft.com/EncSpot2/EncSp...Basic%202.0.zip

It can not only do MP3 analyzing, but also basic MPC analyzing. It shows the average bitrate for a folder in the lower left corner of it's window.


<<<Remark: The dialog boxes of # PHP List Quotes
are clean of helping information about what this
is>>>

In one of the packages there's list.exe

CODE
   list.exe *

   list.exe



CODE
PCM size File size  Ratio  kbps    Duration  Param Frequency  Name

   0.889     0.080          128    0:05.042  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  100only.mp3

   2.362     1.254  1.882   750    0:13.390  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  11.pac

   0.882     0.046         73.9    0:05.000  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  60.pac

   1.031     0.659  1.566   901    0:05.849  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Bassdrum.pac

   1.072     0.510  2.102   671    0:06.082  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  BlackBird.pac

   1.161     0.173  6.687   211    0:06.583  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Castanets-v00_209Kb.mp2

   1.161     0.194  5.956   237    0:06.583  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Castanets-v05_235Kb.mp2

   1.161     0.228  5.077   278    0:06.583  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Castanets-v10_276Kb.mp2

   1.161     0.267  4.335   326    0:06.583  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Castanets-v15_323Kb.mp2

   1.170     0.631  1.855   761    0:06.634  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Castanets.pac

   1.161     0.159  7.292   194    0:06.583  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Castanets_192Kb.mp2

   1.831     0.124         48.1    0:20.767  (2x16 22050 Hz)  Classic_48Kb.mp3

   1.748     0.138         56.1    0:19.827  (2x16 22050 Hz)  Classic_56Kb.mp3

   2.035     1.236  1.645   858    0:11.538  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Daughter (Pearl Jam).pac

   5.460     3.110  1.756   804    0:30.953  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Fools.pac

  10.934     0.744         96.1    1:01.989  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Funky_96Kb.mp3

   1.063     0.274  3.880   364    0:06.030  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Granados.pac

   1.051     0.473  2.220   636    0:05.958  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Hex.pac

   0.658     0.084  7.823   131    0:05.148  (2x16   32 kHz)  Hobbit-q1.mp3

   0.658     0.086  7.583   135    0:05.148  (2x16   32 kHz)  Hobbit-q2.mp3

   0.655     0.361  1.813   565    0:05.120  (2x16   32 kHz)  Hobbit.pac

   1.060     0.689  1.538   918    0:06.013  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  KMFDM-Dogma.pac

   2.023     0.869  2.326   607    0:11.471  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  QueenGoodOldFashioned.pac

   2.479     0.224          128    0:14.054  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Raspberry_Beret_128Kb.mp3

   1.239     0.449  2.756   256    0:14.054  (  16 44.1 kHz)  Raspberry_Beret_256Kb.mp3

   1.916     0.130         96.3    0:10.867  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Spot1_96Kb.mp3

   2.004     0.136         96.3    0:11.363  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Spot2_96Kb.mp3

   2.059     0.140         96.3    0:11.677  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Spot3_96Kb.mp3

   1.004     0.091          128    0:05.695  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Test_128Kb.mp2

   2.424     1.872  1.295  1090    0:13.744  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Tristania-ruins-intro.ape

   1.455     1.106  1.316  1073    0:08.252  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  applaud.pac

   5.234     0.712  7.344   192    0:29.675  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  applaus.mp3

   5.237     3.014  1.737   812    0:29.690  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  applaus.pac

   1.031     0.659  1.566   901    0:05.849  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  bassdrum.pac



Error: 1002: invalid input file



   2.813     1.490  1.888   748    0:15.950  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  bi.pac

   0.876     0.536  1.633   432    0:09.937  (  16 44.1 kHz)  cardigans.pac

   3.305     1.333  2.479   569    0:18.739  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  death2.pac

   2.726     1.404  1.942   727    0:15.458  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  dogies.pac

   2.848     1.157  2.462   573    0:16.147  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  dr4.pac

  39.010    23.317  1.673   843    3:41.147  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  drone.pac

  10.584     5.665  1.868   755    1:00.002  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  drone_short.pac

   1.000     0.624  1.601   882    0:05.669  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  else3.pac

   0.882     0.458  1.922   734    0:05.000  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  fatboy.pac

   4.513     3.114  1.449   974    0:25.585  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  ftb_samp.pac

   2.990     0.271          128    0:16.953  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  g_boink.mp3

   7.064     0.961  7.345   192    0:40.046  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  gitarre.mp3

   7.066     1.625  4.346   325    0:40.060  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  gitarre.pac

   1.764     1.054  1.673   843    0:10.001  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  goldc.pac

   1.626     0.820  1.982   712    0:09.220  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  gonna_fly_now.pac

   0.986     0.385  2.563   551    0:05.593  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  guitar.pac

   0.446     0.177  2.511   562    0:02.531  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  hihat.pac

   1.834     0.827  2.216   637    0:10.398  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  instruments.pac

   6.171     3.782  1.631   865    0:34.984  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  iron.pac

   1.289     0.859  1.501   470    0:14.624  (  16 44.1 kHz)  jacob.pac

   1.392     0.643  2.166   473    0:10.880  (2x16   32 kHz)  jewharp.pac

   0.745     0.404  1.844   555    0:05.824  (2x16   32 kHz)  jo3.pac

   0.751     0.069         94.1    0:05.868  (2x16   32 kHz)  jo3q1.mp3

   0.751     0.071         97.7    0:05.868  (2x16   32 kHz)  jo3q2.mp3

   1.870     0.915  2.043   691    0:10.606  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  lalaw.pac

   2.514     1.058  2.376   594    0:14.257  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  left-dist.pac

   0.883     0.643  1.374  1027    0:05.007  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  liberate.pac

   1.731     0.970  1.783   791    0:09.813  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  main_theme.pac

   2.455     1.442  1.702   414    0:27.837  (  16 44.1 kHz)  mixed.pac

   1.866     0.775  2.406   587    0:10.580  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  mouth_organ.pac

   0.700     0.365  1.913   738    0:03.968  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  mstest.pac

  10.584     4.633  2.284   618    1:00.000  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  music.pac

   2.259     1.573  1.437   982    0:12.812  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  oasis.pac

   1.227     0.698  1.758   803    0:06.961  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  ogpulse.pac

   1.812     0.614  2.948   479    0:10.272  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  piano.pac

   2.648     1.347  1.965   718    0:15.013  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  pipes.pac

   1.400     0.970  1.443   978    0:07.939  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  qrbic_see.pac

   1.037     0.396  2.616   540    0:05.884  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  short.pac

   2.042     1.069  1.909   739    0:11.579  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  si.pac

   4.483     2.578  1.739   812    0:25.415  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  spahm.pac

   1.568     1.042  1.504   938    0:08.893  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  st_jacob.pac

   1.400     0.414  3.379   418    0:07.936  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  t1.pac

   2.539     0.713  3.561   396    0:14.395  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  test.pac

   2.178     0.948  2.296   615    0:12.352  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  testsignal1.pac

   0.714     0.337  2.117   667    0:04.048  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  testsignal2.pac

   0.026     0.009  2.718   260    0:00.300  (  16 44.1 kHz)  testsignal3.pac

   0.790     0.360  2.191   644    0:04.480  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  testsignal4.pac

   1.355     0.940  1.442   979    0:07.687  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  tpd.pac

   1.917     1.201  1.597   442    0:21.745  (  16 44.1 kHz)  tr-left.pac

   0.672     0.397  1.692   834    0:03.810  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  track7.pac

   1.478     0.573  2.579   547    0:08.379  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  vangelis1.pac

   0.823     0.472  1.744   809    0:04.670  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  vbrtest.pac

   2.095     1.397  1.499   941    0:11.879  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  velvet.pac

   3.707     2.179  1.701   830    0:21.016  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  wait.pac

   5.277     3.592  1.469   961    0:29.916  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  youcantdothat.pac

 237.993   106.635  2.232   598   23:45.724                   ---Sum---


--------------------
-- Frank Klemm
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CiTay
post May 28 2002, 17:46
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Yes, seems like this would also work. But what's that:

QUOTE
  10.934    0.744        96.1    1:01.989  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Funky_96Kb.mp3

...

    1.916    0.130        96.3    0:10.867  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Spot1_96Kb.mp3
    2.004    0.136        96.3    0:11.363  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Spot2_96Kb.mp3
    2.059    0.140        96.3    0:11.677  (2x16 44.1 kHz)  Spot3_96Kb.mp3


Invalid MP3 framesizes... list.exe needs some accuracy tunings.
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Gecko
post May 28 2002, 18:20
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Is mppenc 1.04 based on one of the four versions of mppenc, that were posted recently?

Just for the record, I encoded two trance compilations (eye trance 3 and 4 without the turntablemix) at --standard --nmt 8.
v1.02: 414mb
v1.04: 383mb
That's a saving of 31mb or ~7.5%. If quality doesn't suffer, this is quite impressive imo.

I'm still a little sceptical though, but I guess I've been brainwashed to just compare bitrates without actually listening. Everything sounds ok to me, but then again, I'm not the one to ask these things.
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Frank Klemm
post May 28 2002, 22:26
Post #22


MPC Developer


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QUOTE
Originally posted by CiTay
Yes, seems like this would also work. But what's that:



Invalid MP3 framesizes... list.exe needs some accuracy tunings.


This is the exact bitrate of the file.

Filesize * 8 bit/byte / playtime

The program shows the really needed bitrate.
A MP3 stream with 3 MByte ID3V2 tags can have
700...800 kbps (it is not difficult to find such
nonsense in the internet, 15 MP3 files with
96 kbps, Xing encoded + cover images, the same
images in every MP3 file)


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-- Frank Klemm
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NickSD
post May 29 2002, 00:48
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No one ever answered the question asked before... What is the reason for the bitrate drops in --xtreme and --standard in the new version of the encoder?

Also, I'm confused by your analysis of this site, Frank. I've never had a single problem with this site, let alone be confused by it. But...to each their own. smile.gif For the record, I'd much rather use this site than use a newsgroup.

Nick
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JohnV
post May 29 2002, 02:07
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The primary question raised again by NickSD was still not answered. :ponder:


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Juha Laaksonheimo
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experttech
post May 29 2002, 08:52
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I think this is deviating too much from the main topic. And the things behind he 'bitrate reduction' have not been addressed at all.

Appreciate if Frank (or someone else) could throw some light on whats behind this whole thingy of the significant birate reduction...

Or whether the MPC developers really felt what Garf said (and what I believe too) is correct and made the 1.04 versions biggrin.gif

Cheers!
experttech.
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