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foobar2000 mobile fundraiser
mudlord
post Apr 15 2014, 03:07
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If I EVER donate to this, for whatever reason..........

I want some accountability, I want reports of where my money will be spent.

Expenses like iPads, iPhones and other things are fine.

I don't want it spent on pizza or porn. Or paytv bills.
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Soap
post Apr 15 2014, 05:55
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QUOTE (mudlord @ Apr 14 2014, 22:07) *
Expenses like iPads, iPhones and other things are fine.

I don't want it spent on pizza or porn. Or paytv bills.


Do you ask the same of the people who grow your food?


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mudlord
post Apr 15 2014, 07:53
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How is asking for a report on where the money will go strange?
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Robertina
post Apr 15 2014, 08:00
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I think the most pressing change that the foobar2000 mobile project needs right now for having promise of success is getting a spokesperson with enough available time for the community.

Such an ambitious project like this one requires a powerful representative in my opinion, a guy who is able to direct a discussion and to detect when he has to countersteer because the debate goes the wrong way. A person with the ability to communicate the idea of the project, to stir up enthusiasm and to keep it alive. And it is also one of that person's duties to actively clear up things - not only on HA! - as well as to keep in touch with (prospective) pledgers and to keep them up-to-date about the project's current status.

A project which shall be funded by pledgers is in the first place an advertising campaign: It needs to be actively promoted, it needs to be pushed and it needs to be brought to mind again and again. Doing this alone is a full-time job. And I am sure that spoon is pressed for time: he had to manage the campaign on kickstarter.com, he is the project's figurehead, he is the project's spokesman, he and kode54 and Peter are already programming for the various mobile platforms, spoon has also his own business and probably a private life. And who knows what else is processed in the background. That's too much for a single person.

I agree that the campaign's initial presentation and layout was improvable. But that isn't the biggest danger for the campaign's success from my point of view. The most serious threat for the project is in my eyes spoon's lack of time and his uncommunicativeness resulting from that running out of time. His mostly brief answers, partly in an abrupt style, often enough even simple yes/no-replies - this will not work (reminds me of audioSAFE). Such style let interest rather dying away than to stimulate it. And I am sure I don't need to mention that I would be very glad if the foobar2000 mobile project would succeed!

It is a serious matter if pledgers are worried about their money just due to the project's poor policy of disclosure. The project promises an extraordinary player with innovative new abilities. I am trying to motivate my friends to pledge. They ask me: What are these for abilities? I don't know.

This is just my very personal private opinion but I think spoon should either get more time on his hands for public relations or he should delegate this job to somebody else.
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skamp
post Apr 15 2014, 08:13
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QUOTE (Robertina @ Apr 15 2014, 09:00) *
I think the most pressing change that the foobar2000 mobile project needs right now for having promise of success is getting a spokesperson with enough available time for the community.

Such an ambitious project like this one requires a powerful representative in my opinion, a guy who is able to direct a discussion and to detect when he has to countersteer because the debate goes the wrong way. A person with the ability to communicate the idea of the project, to stir up enthusiasm and to keep it alive. And it is also one of that person's duties to actively clear up things - not only on HA! - as well as to keep in touch with (prospective) pledgers and to keep them up-to-date about the project's current status.


I hear Neil Young is available, and he's got prior experience!


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Brand
post Apr 15 2014, 10:26
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Some suggestions for the future, even if I repeat some of what's already been said:
1. Make a separate fundraiser for every platform, keep it simple and focused.
2. Windows Phone desperately needs a decent music app, more than iOS or Android. AFAIK there still isn't one that does gapless or FLAC playback. I suspect there are technical limitations for this, otherwise it would have been done by now... but it's worth looking into.
3. Desktop Linux and Mac users would probably be interested in Foobar as well (the same version that is on Windows now).
4. Keep it on Kickstarter or similar (Indiegogo?), which is more trustworthy.
5. Do a good presentation, focusing on the final product. I wouldn't bother with bundling hardware (other than maybe a Foobar t-shirt).
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kwanbis
post Apr 15 2014, 14:47
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One other thing to consider is the pledge amount. Even though 25 dollars might seem little, it is an amount you evaluate before spending.

How many people are in HA? 100.000? If 1/4 of them pledge 4 dollars, the minimum is covered, and 4 dollars is much simpler to ask for, and people would be less demanding if you as for 4 dollars.

How many users of fb2k are there? If upon opening it next time, you get an about mobile fb2k project, and ask for 4~5 dollars, and you tell this is a very special introductory price, and that upon release is going to cost 10, a lot of people would pledge.

This post has been edited by kwanbis: Apr 15 2014, 15:52


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Soap
post Apr 15 2014, 16:05
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QUOTE (mudlord @ Apr 15 2014, 02:53) *
How is asking for a report on where the money will go strange?


What's strange is asking it of who you acquire your software from but not who you acquire your food from.


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andrew_berge
post Apr 15 2014, 16:17
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Pledged, but i agree with many of the points made in this thread.
Should have stayed with Kickstarter.
$25 is quite a lot incredibly high for an app, are you planning on charging this much once it's released? Typically, you see Kickstarters offering prices lower than the final price.
If i hadn't been using Foobar2000 for years, i wouldn't have pledged. A pledge of anything less than $25 doesn't get you anything of value, why would you want to go on the forum if you're not going to get the app anyway?
The page needs to be restructured/rewritten and made a little less confusing/tailored to nerds like us.

That said, i'm happy to finally give something back for the wonderful software that is the PC version.

This post has been edited by andrew_berge: Apr 15 2014, 16:17
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kwanbis
post Apr 15 2014, 16:27
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QUOTE (andrew_berge @ Apr 15 2014, 16:17) *
Pledged, but i agree with many of the points made in this thread.
Should have stayed with Kickstarter.
$25 is quite a lot incredibly high for an app, are you planning on charging this much once it's released? Typically, you see Kickstarters offering prices lower than the final price.
If i hadn't been using Foobar2000 for years, i wouldn't have pledged. A pledge of anything less than $25 doesn't get you anything of value, why would you want to go on the forum if you're not going to get the app anyway?
The page needs to be restructured/rewritten and made a little less confusing/tailored to nerds like us.

That said, i'm happy to finally give something back for the wonderful software that is the PC version.

Totally agree with you andrew. On giving back to the wonderful sw that is the pc version, and the rest.

They need to think economic of scale. If done right and priced right, you can sell what, a million units? five million? At 4~5 dollars that is a lot.


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Jan S.
post Apr 15 2014, 16:36
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QUOTE (kwanbis @ Apr 15 2014, 14:47) *
How many people are in HA? 100.000? If 1/4 of them pledge 4 dollars, the minimum is covered, and 4 dollars is much simpler to ask for, and people would be less demanding if you as for 4 dollars.

100.000 ever registered on HA including bots. That is during more than a decade. It is difficult to assess now many are actively reading HA but it is far far fewer.
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eahm
post Apr 15 2014, 17:08
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Even though I have iOS and I want to pledge for iOS and Android I don't think an iOS version would be of much use for me. Apple doesn't allow to fully integrate anything 3rd party so, Android would be the exciting one IMO.

I am just giving something because I like foobar2000, Peter and the mentality he's keeping behind it. You can prostitute your sister become a meth addict (better?) with the money for what I care, go and have fun, you deserve it.

BTW, here they think you'll switch from Windows to Android: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2...0_is_headed_to/

This post has been edited by eahm: Apr 15 2014, 18:03


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romor
post Apr 15 2014, 17:11
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Like roughly half of the posters (foobar2000 lovers) I think this look premature and it simply can't happen.
I want it happen (i.e. Windows phone), but paying some money I don't think will get me there.

IMHO, you guys should hire some professionals, as wherever smart you are, you can't do all by yourselves.
Presentation is surprisingly low, not mentioning confusion discussed.

Sorry to be generally negative, but I believe I'm right.


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Robertina
post Apr 15 2014, 18:30
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QUOTE (eahm @ Apr 15 2014, 05:08) *
BTW, here they think you'll switch from Windows to Android: https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2...0_is_headed_to/

I get on my system with two different web browsers security alerts (issues with server certificates) when trying to open that web page. Internet Explorer recommends even to not visit that site.

Appendix: it is the https-prefix that triggers that warning.

This post has been edited by Robertina: Apr 15 2014, 18:37
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RonaldDumsfeld
post Apr 15 2014, 19:28
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There must be at least 5,000 delighted users who have got a more than fair $25 worth of value out of foobar and prepared to do the decent thing?

Surely?

At this point in time I am as confused as everyone else about what they want to spend it on. That's up to them.

You just know they are going to come up with a bang on world class product. Even if it's for someone else.

These guys are engineers. Proper engineers. Not marketing wonks. I find that encouraging.

I'm sick of all those slick campaigns where all the effort goes into the presentation rather than the product. Give them some money. Let them get on with what they are good at.

If anyone can do it. They can. If that's what they want to do it's good enough for me. Why not you?
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Robertina
post Apr 15 2014, 19:48
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QUOTE (Robertina @ Apr 15 2014, 06:30) *
Appendix: it is the https-prefix that triggers that warning.

To protect against possible Heartbleed attacks Akamai updates their server certificates.

Maybe this is the background for the warnings.
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skamp
post Apr 15 2014, 19:57
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QUOTE (RonaldDumsfeld @ Apr 15 2014, 20:28) *
I'm sick of all those slick campaigns where all the effort goes into the presentation rather than the product.


The Pono fundraiser, for instance, is not one or the other. It's both. They spent a lot of time and money on both marketing (Neil Young collecting a ton of endorsements from fellow performing musicians) and engineering (getting a working prototype out before the fundraiser even began).


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godrick
post Apr 15 2014, 20:18
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A suggestion: per this article article perhaps look into integration or collaboration with recent initiatives that are essentially wifi audio streamers with mobile/cloud/PC integration:

gramaphon and beep

If viable, these seem like the first cheap, cross platform competitors to AE/Airplay in several respects. However strong they may be in hardware, it's likely your audio-related software capabilities blow away theirs and would complement each other.

I have no professional interest in either linked effort. I just want high quality, cheap and easy-to-use methods to listen to music throughout my home and on the go!
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RonaldDumsfeld
post Apr 15 2014, 20:18
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Exactly!. And it's all bullshit.

There is no real advantage to hi-rez distribution., All DACs ought to sound the same. All that negative feedback twaddle. 40 years old master tape? Does need anything better than vinyl. So they are selling bling for nerds. Good luck to them. I prefer a good honest product at a fair price. Get a grip.
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klonuo
post Apr 15 2014, 21:04
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People, you do know that there are ready made templates that target consistency across various devices, including mobile phones?
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Wakinyan
post Apr 15 2014, 21:54
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I'd contribute as tester or earlybird if there is an BBOS10 Version done... smile.gif For the moment I use Neutron as music player...smile.gif
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bwat47
post Apr 15 2014, 23:14
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QUOTE (romor @ Apr 15 2014, 11:11) *
Like roughly half of the posters (foobar2000 lovers) I think this look premature and it simply can't happen.
I want it happen (i.e. Windows phone), but paying some money I don't think will get me there.

IMHO, you guys should hire some professionals, as wherever smart you are, you can't do all by yourselves.
Presentation is surprisingly low, not mentioning confusion discussed.

Sorry to be generally negative, but I believe I'm right.

I agree, I feel that this has been handled rather poorly so far. Their goals seemed quite vague and fluffy, and they keep changing their minds over and over. It looks like it wasn't thought out as well as it should have been. I love the foobar2000 desktop application, and I'd donate for development of that, but so far I haven't seen anything about the mobile project that gives me enough confidence for me to want to donate. Maybe if there was some sort of proof of concept, more details about how the mobile application will function and look etc... So far everything just seems incredibly vague...I'll keep an eye on the project, but in its current state I don't see anything that would convince me its worth donating to.

Cloud foobar2000 is the only thing that looked interesting to me, but again its pretty vague. I currently have my entire library on google music, and use the google music app when using my android devices. What incentive would there be for me to switch? it took forever for me to upload all my library to google music, so it would have to have some good incentives!

This post has been edited by bwat47: Apr 15 2014, 23:20
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RonaldDumsfeld
post Apr 15 2014, 23:21
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If you think foobar was worth any money at all. Give it too them. Let them work out how to use it. They did ok so far? Right?

All this quibbling. Makes you sound like cheapskates.

This is proper kickstarter. Money for guys you think are going to do something quality. Not underwriting millionaire bullshit merchants risk.
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andrew_berge
post Apr 15 2014, 23:22
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QUOTE (bwat47 @ Apr 15 2014, 17:14) *
I'll keep an eye on the project, but in its current state I don't see anything that would convince me its worth donating to.


I do.

QUOTE (bwat47 @ Apr 15 2014, 17:14) *
I love the foobar2000 desktop application


This post has been edited by andrew_berge: Apr 15 2014, 23:22
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Brand
post Apr 15 2014, 23:44
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If you want to support the current (desktop) Foobar you can also donate through Flattr. The option has been there on the Foobar homepage for a while.
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