IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

6 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
foo_dsp_fsurround, a new surround processor for foobar2000 0.9.x
pro_optimizer
post Apr 6 2007, 17:13
Post #51





Group: Developer
Posts: 99
Joined: 6-June 06
Member No.: 31515



QUOTE (Rswave2k2 @ Mar 27 2007, 18:26) *
Thanks for the reply. I tried turning center image to 1.0 and it my foobar use 50% of my cpu. What's a good recommendation setting for center image? So with center it plays more of the "center" sounds of the sound field. And since theres a center one to play between 2 and 20 more if the sounds of like speakers 9-14 get played on the center only. Also for the center image whats the difference between 0.2 or say 0.7 is it volume or what? What setting would be good lets say with the 20 speaker example have left speaker play 1-7 center play 8-13 and right play 14-20. Does having the cetner image at 1.0 make center play 2-19?

No. In the 2-speaker setting there is a constant factor associated with every position (different, for left and right speakers), e.g. for the 20 imagined speakers:
left plays #1@100%, #2@95%, ... #10@50%, #11@45%, ..., #20@0%
center plays 0% always
right plays #1@0%, #2@5%, #3@10%, ..., #19@95%, #20@100%

In the 3-speaker setting, there is again a constant factor for each position (different for left,center,right):
left plays #1@100%, #2@90%, #3@80%, ..., #9@10%, #10@0%, #11@0%, ..., #20@0%
center plays #1@0%, #2@10%, #3@20%, ..., #9@90%, #10@100%, #11@90%, ..., #20@0%
right plays #1@0%, #2@0%, ..., #10@0%, #11@10%, #12@20%, ... #19@90%, #20@100%

So what does center image do?
It blends linearly between the factors of the 2-speaker setting and the 3-speaker setting.
This means, you can gradually blend between both settings.
Note that the positions of the sound sources do not change, i.e. an instrument 30 to the left will be 30 to the left in any of the settings (even the intermediate ones).
The only thing that differs with center enabled is that you can have a more concrete image of the close-to-center instruments, because they are played by a speaker that is actually at that position and not simulated by two speakers which are at completely different locations.

Btw: The center image setting should not influence how much CPU you foobar consumes (except there's some magic involved like "if the buffer is all 0, then don't do any calculations on it." but it's not very likely that anyone would do this since that slows down the normal processing).

QUOTE (morphguy12 @ Apr 6 2007, 00:14) *
Failed to load DLL: foo_dsp_fsurround.dll
Reason: This component is missing a required dependency, or was made for different version of foobar2000.

any reason as to why this would happen?

The most likely reason is that you forgot to download the libfftw3 library (it should go into windows\system32 or your foobar2000 folder)...
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mkeroppi
post Apr 11 2007, 22:34
Post #52





Group: Members
Posts: 17
Joined: 2-May 03
Member No.: 6330



Is there any way to reverse the front and rear? I'm using it with Dolby Headphone with the ER-4B and the front and rear are reversed for some reason.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pro_optimizer
post Apr 12 2007, 19:38
Post #53





Group: Developer
Posts: 99
Joined: 6-June 06
Member No.: 31515



QUOTE (mkeroppi @ Apr 11 2007, 22:34) *
Is there any way to reverse the front and rear? I'm using it with Dolby Headphone with the ER-4B and the front and rear are reversed for some reason.

Not really, but you could try to eliminate the reason.
I don't think that the output channels got mixed up (assuming you have recent (and non-hacked) versions of foobar, FS and DH). However, you could verify this with the channeltest.mp3.
To be absolutely sure that FS's output mapping is ok, you could put ATSurround-Headphone after it and selectively mute some of its 5 input channels.

I think its more likely that somewhere in your input chain (e.g. the CD ripper or input plugin) the polarity of one of your stereo channels got inverted. This would result in more or less switched front and rear in all common surround decoders. The fix would be to flip the channel's sign back.

If none of the above is the problem, I can only imagine that DH may be not very compatible to your ears/ears-headphone combination.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mkeroppi
post Apr 16 2007, 01:54
Post #54





Group: Members
Posts: 17
Joined: 2-May 03
Member No.: 6330



QUOTE (pro_optimizer @ Apr 12 2007, 10:38) *
QUOTE (mkeroppi @ Apr 11 2007, 22:34) *

Is there any way to reverse the front and rear? I'm using it with Dolby Headphone with the ER-4B and the front and rear are reversed for some reason.

Not really, but you could try to eliminate the reason.
I don't think that the output channels got mixed up (assuming you have recent (and non-hacked) versions of foobar, FS and DH). However, you could verify this with the channeltest.mp3.
To be absolutely sure that FS's output mapping is ok, you could put ATSurround-Headphone after it and selectively mute some of its 5 input channels.

I think its more likely that somewhere in your input chain (e.g. the CD ripper or input plugin) the polarity of one of your stereo channels got inverted. This would result in more or less switched front and rear in all common surround decoders. The fix would be to flip the channel's sign back.

If none of the above is the problem, I can only imagine that DH may be not very compatible to your ears/ears-headphone combination.


I actually tried the channeltest.mp3 before the post. I've tried ATSurround and it seems the channels are mapped correctly for the plugin, so it seems to be a problem with DH. the LRC channels seems to be behind me, as well as moving the "dimension" would seem to move the sound linearly in reverse (negative moves the sound forward while positive moves it backward).

So it's not simply a matter of flipping the front and rear channels I guess.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
narcosiss
post Apr 21 2007, 22:45
Post #55





Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 30-May 06
Member No.: 31305



Heya, thanks alot for this DSP! It works much better than the standard channel mixer.

However, whenever I have it on, all my music gets a kinda 'jangly' chorusy effect on it like a low quality mp3.
I'm sure you know the type I mean, like when you stream a low quality video on a website and the audio has a jingling noise to it.

I was wondering, is there a way to prevent this or fix it?

I'm not the biggest audiophile buff so I don't know most of the terms, I do have a fairly good understanding though.

Thanks

This post has been edited by narcosiss: Apr 23 2007, 15:26
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Acropolis
post May 3 2007, 07:44
Post #56





Group: Banned
Posts: 471
Joined: 23-September 04
Member No.: 17243



I found that this component (as well as downmix I think) has a very low performance, especially when starting a track, even I only put this in the DSP chain, it will always interrupt the plackback (I can achieve uninterrupted when manually change the track.

I think the cause is because it is using std:vector.
I've made a modification so that a lot faster and reinitialize when only needed and no interruption, if you want my modified source, please pm me.

This post has been edited by Acropolis: May 3 2007, 07:44
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
poisas
post Jun 6 2007, 20:07
Post #57





Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 7-February 07
Member No.: 40421



Any update will come up ? smile.gif we are waiting... biggrin.gif anyway good job
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
metal_termite
post Jun 7 2007, 03:09
Post #58





Group: Members
Posts: 538
Joined: 10-July 04
Member No.: 15248



It was mentioned to use foo_channel_mixer to redirect bass to the subwoofer to work with this component, yes? Could someone help me with that, because when I put foo_chanel_mixer into the DSP chain it seems to nullify this component. How do I set them up?

Also I am just curious if someone could answer this in layman's terms. Why doesn't this component allow redirection of bass to the subwoofer? Does that mean my subwoofer does not get used?

Sorry for the dumb questions, but I'm totally clueless regarding DSPs.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
poisas
post Jun 11 2007, 14:55
Post #59





Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 7-February 07
Member No.: 40421



anyone found other alternative type of mixers like fsurround ?
as we know there are atsurround but this one is #2 - no rear channel steering,
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pro_optimizer
post Jun 13 2007, 23:32
Post #60





Group: Developer
Posts: 99
Joined: 6-June 06
Member No.: 31515



Hello folks,

sorry for my low post frequency lately, reason is that I have a huge load of inevitable work to do at work (and university (and elsewhere... )).
There will be progress once I chewed through all this (although I don't know if there is actually an open feature request in the queue, apart from speed optimizations).

Concerning the bass redirection, you can do this by putting Channel Mixer afterwards and redirect all bass from the 5 satelites to the subwoofer. It goes like this (at least in the version I have):

General tab: "Output channels" = 6
Upmix tab: "Mode" = off
Downmix tab: "Mode" = off
Subwoofer tab:
"Use subwoofer" = checked
"Send to subwoofer from 5.1 sources:" = "All channels"
"Bass redirection" = checked
"Type" = "Full redirection"
Delays tab: "Use delay" = unchecked

I don't know how the quality is, though (since I have no subwoofer).
You could also try to get your soundcard to do it (it should be possible, e.g. by setting output channels in channel mixer to 5 and deactivate bass redirection -- then you card has to infer the bass channel from somewhere).

@Acropolis:
Thanks for the hint. I didn't expect that the whole DSP chain is being destroyed and recreated when one changes the track. I fixed it by retaining the buffers and the processor inside an object pool. Now it takes less than 0.1 seconds to switch the tracks (including harddisk seek time).

@posias:
I hope you are writing this because you want to "bring me back" ... smile.gif

Edit: One person downloaded a premature version (with a glitch when switching tracks) of the file, 2 hours ago or so. If your are the one, please redownload...

This post has been edited by pro_optimizer: Jun 14 2007, 00:44
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Rswave2k2
post Jun 19 2007, 05:04
Post #61





Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 15-August 04
Member No.: 16298



QUOTE (Rswave2k2 @ Mar 27 2007, 09:26) *
I tried turning center image to 1.0 and it my foobar use 50% of my cpu. ?


Remember when I post this a while back? Well whatever that guy told you about the fix in switching songs it worked. Now when I put the center image to .70 it no longer uses 50% of the cpu. So thanks for the fix! I did reinstall my drivers so that may be it I'm not sure fixed it.

This post has been edited by Rswave2k2: Jun 19 2007, 05:11
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
poisas
post Jun 19 2007, 17:17
Post #62





Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 7-February 07
Member No.: 40421



Thats right pro_optimizer wink.gif i hate silence,
i want you back, because youre doing great job here smile.gif
waitin here for next update wink.gif
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
tech
post Jul 12 2007, 21:06
Post #63





Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 21-February 07
Member No.: 40831



I have to same problem


QUOTE (morphguy12 @ Apr 5 2007, 17:14) *
Failed to load DLL: foo_dsp_fsurround.dll
Reason: This component is missing a required dependency, or was made for different version of foobar2000.

any reason as to why this would happen?


This post has been edited by tech: Jul 12 2007, 21:11
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
GeSomeone
post Jul 13 2007, 17:26
Post #64





Group: Members
Posts: 921
Joined: 22-October 01
From: the Netherlands
Member No.: 335



QUOTE (tech @ Jul 12 2007, 21:06) *
I have to same problem
As who? unsure.gif
Did you read the first post that says you need also libfftw3f-3.dll? Put that in your foobar2000 directory if you haven't done so.

edit: I misspelled foobar2000

This post has been edited by GeSomeone: Aug 13 2008, 17:49
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
blahdy
post Jan 14 2008, 01:59
Post #65





Group: Members
Posts: 10
Joined: 10-December 07
Member No.: 49419



apologies for rehasing an old thread here...

I was wondering, for next updated version (hopefully there will be one tongue.gif), could you add a control to set the Rear speaker volumes? This would be different than Dimension slider; A simple volume slider for each 5 speakers (L, C, R, RL, RR) like how Channel Mixer has would be nice smile.gif

The matrix decoding on your plugin is awesome though, great job!
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jorgo
post Aug 8 2008, 18:50
Post #66





Group: Banned
Posts: 55
Joined: 7-June 06
Member No.: 31596



I am amazed at the quality this plugin retains when put in a DSP chain, I'd like to use it as a replacement for binaural listening on headphones.

Center Image, Dimension and Stereo Separation all seem to go into this but I'm not 100% what each one does exactly:
Stereo Separation moves the speakers closer together?
Center Image moves the listener back and forth between front and rear?
Dimension makes the room smaller/bigger?

Any suggestions as to what good values to use?

This post has been edited by Jorgo: Aug 8 2008, 20:21
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pro_optimizer
post Aug 9 2008, 00:23
Post #67





Group: Developer
Posts: 99
Joined: 6-June 06
Member No.: 31515



QUOTE (Jorgo @ Aug 8 2008, 19:50) *
I am amazed at the quality this plugin retains when put in a DSP chain, I'd like to use it as a replacement for binaural listening on headphones.

Center Image, Dimension and Stereo Separation all seem to go into this but I'm not 100% what each one does exactly:
Stereo Separation moves the speakers closer together?
Center Image moves the listener back and forth between front and rear?
Dimension makes the room smaller/bigger?

Any suggestions as to what good values to use?


Here is the settings which I am currently using, and have been using for about a year, both with Dolby Headphone and my home surround receiver:


As you see, most values are at their defaults. This means that a vanilla stereo mix should sound as if played on a stereo system (except for echoes, which usually come from behind), and a surround-encoded mix should sound like the artist wanted it to sound.
You use the sliders if
a) your (possibly virtual) speakers are inadequately placed or chosen
b) you are listening to music which was mixed by less technically adept people
c) you want to get surround-like effects even with good old stereo music

Here is the meaning of the sliders:

High values (>1) of Stereo Separation stretch the sound sources further to the left/right (this can give you a wider soundfield), lower values (<1) give you a narrower soundfield. 1.0 means that the original (i.e. artist intended) stereo separations are retained.

Center Image does not change the location of any perceived sound. However, it controls to what degree the center speaker is allowed to reproduce center sound sources.
E.g. if you have an excellent center speaker (e.g. same as your front left/right speakers), you may want to use a high value here (e.g. 1.0). Otherwise, you use a smaller value (in the extreme case 0.0), which makes your left/right front speakers do all the work of the center, and the center does less or nothing.
Apart from the quality of your speakers, there is of course a difference between 3 same speakers in front of you versus just 2 of them. The difference is exactly that with 3 speakers it's easier for your brain to locate the center sources, which can give you a more concrete sound.

Dimension moves the sound sources towards the front (negative values), or towards the back (positive values). Slightly positive values may therefore result in more 'immersive' sound, negative values result in a more frontal, stereo-like sound.
For good surround mixes, it should not be necessary to tinker with this slider, and also if you want your vanilla stereo music to sound like stereo, you should not play with it. But, if you want to get lots of surround, even with not-so-surroundish music, you can use e.g. 0.5 here.

@blahdy: Sorry, currently, I don't plan to add such volume controls. The reason is that any surround (and even stereo) plugin would have to have these controls. But this is not what you want: A plugin is a module, which does a certain job. Mine is to decode the surround information within your stereo files, and deforming it in some ways. Controlling the volume of each speaker is actually the job of foobar2000, but since there is no such option, you need another plugin which does exactly this, and put it behind fsurround in the DSP chain.
Channel Mixer comes closest to that other plugin.

This post has been edited by pro_optimizer: Aug 9 2008, 00:31
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pro_optimizer
post Aug 11 2008, 23:28
Post #68





Group: Developer
Posts: 99
Joined: 6-June 06
Member No.: 31515



Brought the initial post up to date, included some often requested information from throughout the thread...
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Walrusbonzo
post Aug 12 2008, 21:05
Post #69





Group: Members
Posts: 15
Joined: 2-June 07
Member No.: 43967



Been getting sick of having to use Creative's nasty bloated software to get everything sounding right.

Found this plugin, absolutely loving it.

Excellent work. CPU usage almost never goes over 1% even with PPHS Resampler to 96kHz in Ultra Mode.

Thanks!
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TheBlakester
post Sep 8 2008, 17:07
Post #70





Group: Members
Posts: 19
Joined: 1-August 07
Member No.: 45773



QUOTE (pro_optimizer @ Jan 28 2007, 15:28) *
This means that plain Stereo Music which was not encoded this way sounds very similar to normal Stereo, except that echoes or very distorted sounds usually come over the surround speakers, too. Encoded music sounds much better, of course.

I'm currently using the Dolby Headphone DSP and I'm trying to determine whether it should be preceded by either the free surround dsp or the channel mixer (for upscaling to 5.1). You say the free surround dsp only has a significant effect when the music is encoded for surround playback, but I'm confused. Don't these kind of releases already include a 5.1 mix?
Thanks.

This post has been edited by TheBlakester: Sep 8 2008, 17:08
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pro_optimizer
post Sep 8 2008, 19:49
Post #71





Group: Developer
Posts: 99
Joined: 6-June 06
Member No.: 31515



QUOTE (TheBlakester @ Sep 8 2008, 18:07) *
I'm currently using the Dolby Headphone DSP and I'm trying to determine whether it should be preceded by either the free surround dsp or the channel mixer (for upscaling to 5.1). You say the free surround dsp only has a significant effect when the music is encoded for surround playback, but I'm confused. Don't these kind of releases already include a 5.1 mix?
Thanks.


I think you're assuming that a release is either plain stereo or full-blown SACD/DVD-Audio.
But since it's easy to add surround effects here and there in a stereo mix, and since most people with surround setups have a stereo decoder, it is not that black-and-white.
There is a spectrum going from vanilla stereo music, over somewhat-enriched music, to multichannel-mastered and downmixed music (including the CD/mp3/(internet) radio versions of a 5.1 mix). The big problem is that no one ever cares to state on a CD what you will find on it, surround-wise (except for the occasional classical music label). So you can do no more than use it and see what unfolds and what doesn't, or use a channel replicator right away. smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
TheBlakester
post Sep 8 2008, 22:16
Post #72





Group: Members
Posts: 19
Joined: 1-August 07
Member No.: 45773



QUOTE (pro_optimizer @ Sep 8 2008, 14:49) *
QUOTE (TheBlakester @ Sep 8 2008, 18:07) *

I'm currently using the Dolby Headphone DSP and I'm trying to determine whether it should be preceded by either the free surround dsp or the channel mixer (for upscaling to 5.1). You say the free surround dsp only has a significant effect when the music is encoded for surround playback, but I'm confused. Don't these kind of releases already include a 5.1 mix?
Thanks.


I think you're assuming that a release is either plain stereo or full-blown SACD/DVD-Audio.
But since it's easy to add surround effects here and there in a stereo mix, and since most people with surround setups have a stereo decoder, it is not that black-and-white.
There is a spectrum going from vanilla stereo music, over somewhat-enriched music, to multichannel-mastered and downmixed music (including the CD/mp3/(internet) radio versions of a 5.1 mix). The big problem is that no one ever cares to state on a CD what you will find on it, surround-wise (except for the occasional classical music label). So you can do no more than use it and see what unfolds and what doesn't, or use a channel replicator right away. smile.gif

Ah, I see. Thanks a lot for clearing that up.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
pro_optimizer
post Sep 10 2008, 01:18
Post #73





Group: Developer
Posts: 99
Joined: 6-June 06
Member No.: 31515



QUOTE (TheBlakester @ Sep 8 2008, 23:16) *
Ah, I see. Thanks a lot for clearing that up.


Actually, you made me start this little public rating board for surround music, where anyone can rate and add his or her albums.
Congrats! smile.gif

It's now linked in the initial post, let's see how this pans out.

This post has been edited by pro_optimizer: Sep 10 2008, 01:20
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Sounds Blast
post Sep 10 2008, 01:43
Post #74





Group: Members
Posts: 311
Joined: 30-May 08
Member No.: 53920



Nice idea pro_optimizer smile.gif will be on there soon
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
NullString
post Sep 10 2008, 04:07
Post #75





Group: Members
Posts: 137
Joined: 23-May 06
From: Chile!
Member No.: 31067



Quick question: Is the public rating board for surround albums? Like Jean Michel Jarre's Aero, or for stereo albums that sound good with this plugin?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

6 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 5 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 30th July 2014 - 21:38