IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
why so few players with removable memory?, need more players with removable memory
porky_pig_jr
post Sep 28 2008, 20:01
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 98
Joined: 6-October 01
Member No.: 225



and a few players that do provide this feature do not have it well-integrated. Apparently, a player can't read the files directly from the removable card: you have to copy the files to the internal memory first before it can be played.

I think providing removable memory (like SDHC) plus the ability to read directly from that memory is a Good Thing to have. SDHC capacity is quickly increasing, the price per GB goes down. With built-in memory once you exceed the capacity of your player, what do you do? Swap some files? Get the player with higher capacity (and disproportionally higher price tag)? With removable memory you have an option of simply getting another card. May be with removable memory the player will be somewhat thicker vs only the built-in one. But SDHC is tiny, so I think that shouldn't affect the form factor that much.

Any comments?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Nick.C
post Sep 28 2008, 20:20
Post #2


lossyWAV Developer


Group: Developer
Posts: 1792
Joined: 11-April 07
From: Wherever here is
Member No.: 42400



Why would this business model interest the producers of such items? If you never had to upgrade for more capacity, how would their turnover be maintained?

Not that I disagree with you at all....


--------------------
lossyWAV -q X -a 4 --feedback 4| FLAC -8 ~= 320kbps
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
KevinPacheco
post Sep 28 2008, 20:49
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 16-June 04
Member No.: 14718



QUOTE (porky_pig_jr @ Sep 28 2008, 14:01) *
Apparently, a player can't read the files directly from the removable card: you have to copy the files to the internal memory first before it can be played.


I have a SanDisk Sansa e250 v2, which has 2GB of internal memory and an SD expansion slot. I've got an 8GB microSDHC memory card installed in that slot. I do have the player more or less filled up with roughly 10GB of music, so I don't think it works the way you described it.

What I would like to have is the option to address all the memory in the aggregate as one large contiguous block, kind of like RAID 0. If I aim to fill up the player with albums, I have to calculate how many albums I can fit on each "drive" and manually drag them to one or the other.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
[JAZ]
post Sep 28 2008, 21:22
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 1783
Joined: 24-June 02
From: Catalunya(Spain)
Member No.: 2383



QUOTE (Nick.C @ Sep 28 2008, 21:20) *
Why would this business model interest the producers of such items? If you never had to upgrade for more capacity, how would their turnover be maintained?


I agree with you that it's all business' interests (especially for Apple), but one has to remember than "mp3" players are the successors of the walkmans. And you didn't need to buy a new one to play a newbought cassete.


Seems that mp3 player+SHDC slot mostly means SanDisk nowadays. And go see, it's precisely the one trying to sell pre-recorded SHDC's with music.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
KevinPacheco
post Sep 28 2008, 22:48
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 3
Joined: 16-June 04
Member No.: 14718



QUOTE
' post='590555' date='Sep 28 2008, 15:22']
Seems that mp3 player+SHDC slot mostly means SanDisk nowadays. And go see, it's precisely the one trying to sell pre-recorded SHDC's with music.

That is true for dedicated mp3 players. I have an LG VX8700 mobile phone with a microSDHC slot, and it was easy to copy mp3 files ripped from my CD collection to a memory card. The sound is quite good (IMHO) on the Sennheiser MM50 stereo headset. However, it is an overall less pleasant experience compared to using a dedicated player. Navigation is clunky, and the battery drain is considerable.

This post has been edited by KevinPacheco: Sep 28 2008, 23:09
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
porky_pig_jr
post Sep 28 2008, 23:39
Post #6





Group: Members
Posts: 98
Joined: 6-October 01
Member No.: 225



QUOTE (KevinPacheco @ Sep 28 2008, 19:49) *
QUOTE (porky_pig_jr @ Sep 28 2008, 14:01) *

Apparently, a player can't read the files directly from the removable card: you have to copy the files to the internal memory first before it can be played.


I have a SanDisk Sansa e250 v2, which has 2GB of internal memory and an SD expansion slot. I've got an 8GB microSDHC memory card installed in that slot. I do have the player more or less filled up with roughly 10GB of music, so I don't think it works the way you described it.

What I would like to have is the option to address all the memory in the aggregate as one large contiguous block, kind of like RAID 0. If I aim to fill up the player with albums, I have to calculate how many albums I can fit on each "drive" and manually drag them to one or the other.


Thanks, I didn't realize Sansa can read the memory card directly. I read a few reviews. of a few players, and that was a common complain: memory was not well integrated. Apparently Sansa does read the memory directly, as you've just described.

As to problem of not having the contiguous memory, I can live with that. By the time I finally get a player, probably 32GB SDHC card will cost peanuts, or may be the higher capacity cards will become available, so the internal memory of a player will become a small change, so to speak.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Martel
post Sep 29 2008, 11:54
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 553
Joined: 31-May 04
From: Czech Rep.
Member No.: 14430



Almost any mobile phone with DAP capabilities may be considered a player with removable memory, so there are more DAPs with removable memory than you think. And they have replaceable battery, too! smile.gif


--------------------
IE4 Rockbox Clip+ AAC@192; HD 668B/HD 518 Xonar DX FB2k FLAC;
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
[JAZ]
post Sep 29 2008, 20:12
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 1783
Joined: 24-June 02
From: Catalunya(Spain)
Member No.: 2383



QUOTE (Martel @ Sep 29 2008, 12:54) *
Almost any mobile phone with DAP capabilities may be considered a player with removable memory, so there are more DAPs with removable memory than you think. And they have replaceable battery, too! smile.gif



A mobile phone that plays music is not a DAP. It is a mobile phone that can reproduce music. It is easy to see people out there playing music through the phone's speaker while they go walking to somewhere. I don't count myself as one of those.

I mean, it is like saying that since there are games for mobile phones, they are replacing the portable gaming consoles. They may have their target audience, but no one in their right mind would say that a mobile phone is a PSP or a nintendo DS.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
eofor
post Sep 29 2008, 22:15
Post #9





Group: Members
Posts: 187
Joined: 24-March 06
Member No.: 28803



QUOTE
' date='Sep 29 2008, 20:12' post='590729']

A mobile phone that plays music is not a DAP. It is a mobile phone that can reproduce music. It is easy to see people out there playing music through the phone's speaker while they go walking to somewhere. I don't count myself as one of those.

I mean, it is like saying that since there are games for mobile phones, they are replacing the portable gaming consoles. They may have their target audience, but no one in their right mind would say that a mobile phone is a PSP or a nintendo DS.


Nokia would beg to differ (NGage). But the DS and PSP have vastly different hardware to a mobile, while adding DAP functionality to a mobile is only a question of software. It's no coincidence that the iPod Touch and the iPhone are so similar.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
[JAZ]
post Sep 30 2008, 18:38
Post #10





Group: Members
Posts: 1783
Joined: 24-June 02
From: Catalunya(Spain)
Member No.: 2383



QUOTE (eofor @ Sep 29 2008, 23:15) *
Nokia would beg to differ (NGage). But the DS and PSP have vastly different hardware to a mobile, while adding DAP functionality to a mobile is only a question of software. It's no coincidence that the iPod Touch and the iPhone are so similar.


Nokia lately says it's an "internet company". I don't agree that being a music player is just a matter of software. A desktop computer has a software to play music, and that doesn't make it a music player.

The real matter is functionality, and i explain:

When i want to watch the tv, i normally pick the remote, and press the power button, and select the channel i preffer.
If i want to see a DVD, i pick the remote, press the power button, insert the dvd in the player, and press play.

With an mp3 player, i switch it on, navigate the list of songs to pick the one i want, and press play, control the volume and my desire and may simply put it back to my pocket.

A mobile phone adds extra steps, as does a computer or any multi- or general-purpose hardware, tool or otherwhise.

Yes, there are lines of mobile phones that target more the audio-interested people ( like the sony/ericsson walkman series), or more general purpose, like the nGage you mention.
Those, either add more buttons, or more steps.

Then, you talk about iPhone and iPod Touch. Neither of both is either a phone or a music player.
Both are just a "special" type of PDA, one of them with a mobile phone antenna.

And at that point, we are at the "Computer vs dedicated-tool" position.

The only advantage of the whole iPhone/Touch interface is that doesn't pretend to be a computer screen, so it can actually simulate the buttons that an actual player would have.

I really haven't tried it, but what do people think: From the usability point of view, what's better for you, and iPod classic, or an iPod Touch?


Edit: Just for the sake of completeness.... Don't you know that some mobile phones nowadays have graphic chips made by nVidia? and that there's an openGL for mobile phones?

This post has been edited by [JAZ]: Sep 30 2008, 18:42
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Egor
post Sep 30 2008, 19:37
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 826
Joined: 29-September 04
Member No.: 17374



If a phone can do whatever dedicated DAP can do, and is similar in size, battery life, capacity, usability etc., then it's OBVIOUS that it replaces dedicated DAP.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Lyx
post Sep 30 2008, 21:40
Post #12





Group: Members
Posts: 3353
Joined: 6-July 03
From: Sachsen (DE)
Member No.: 7609



The described "not a music player"-problem is just a matter of clunky GUIs, which in turn is affected by feature-bloat.

It is possible to create a device, which does just a low amount of however highly useful tasks, and design an GUI for it, which ads none or just one additional step, compared to individual dedicated devices. But then again..... corporate interests, you know? Ringtone shit and stuff means extra revenue for the carriers - extra revenue for the carriers means increased promotion by them - increased promotion mean more sales for the carrier which in turn means more sales for the manufacturer.

So in short, blame the popular corrupted business models, not the tech. Its all their fault...... well, and the fault of braindead zombies which obey to buy that crap.

P.S.: Yes, i do own a Motofone - actually, two of them. I'm teh retro!

This post has been edited by Lyx: Sep 30 2008, 21:42
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Matt Schuette
post Sep 30 2008, 22:09
Post #13





Group: Members
Posts: 66
Joined: 1-August 06
From: Seattle
Member No.: 33521



I have an Insignia Pilot which has an SDHC slot. It's a Best Buy brand, as much as that scared me off, but it's a decent player (for music, I don't care about video). Best Buy isn't really selling them anymore, but you might find one on eBay. It also treats the internal and external memory just as one big block (like the Sansas). It does have some annoying indexing habits, and the company that makes them for Insignia rebadging hasn't pushed an updated firmware, ever. Still a great player, and I've managed to work around any issues I have.

I also have a Samsung SYNC (A707) phone with a microSD (HC? don't recall) slot. It seems to be only halfway shitty as a music player, but the built-in speaker sounds awful. Headphones would require either the Samsung proprietary connector or a dongle with that connector and a 1/8" jack, so I never explored it as a viable DAP. It does have external touch buttons dedicated to music playing. I think the divide between phone and DAP is narrowing rapidly.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
hlloyge
post Oct 1 2008, 08:57
Post #14





Group: Members
Posts: 698
Joined: 10-January 06
From: Zagreb
Member No.: 27018



QUOTE
I agree with you that it's all business' interests (especially for Apple), but one has to remember than "mp3" players are the successors of the walkmans. And you didn't need to buy a new one to play a newbought cassete.


Yes. You took old cassette out and put the new one. And that is just what you should do when you buy a new album smile.gif delete old one, put new one.
You see? there is nothing wrong with the walkman philosophy in mp3 players, it's just your way of thinking that doesn't go along the corporate lines smile.gif

This post has been edited by hlloyge: Oct 1 2008, 08:58
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 2nd October 2014 - 05:31