IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Closed TopicStart new topic
Looking for Elective Amnesia in flac (or lossless), Elective Amnesia - Rise Against
mccarthyk
post Oct 25 2012, 06:17
Post #1





Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 5-October 12
From: Portland, OR
Member No.: 103639



I am a huge rise against fan, I have all of their music on CD and Vinyl. One thing really bugs me though is that the song "Elective Amnesia" is only available from iTunes - and only when you buy the whole album mad.gif - But what I really want is a lossless version of this song. I have a copy that my friend gave my from his iTunes and it sounds really bad. I would be willing to buy the whole album just for this one song, if I can find a lossless version.

Thank you for all your help!
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
punkrockdude
post Oct 25 2012, 07:26
Post #2





Group: Members
Posts: 244
Joined: 21-February 05
Member No.: 20022



I have not found a store that sells lossless Rock / Punk music, unfortunately. It is a big concern for me too because I won't start buying large quanteties of music online until lossless AND high quality covers and inside "books" are offered. Hopefully someone else knows a store and can help us.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Nessuno
post Oct 25 2012, 08:17
Post #3





Group: Members
Posts: 422
Joined: 16-December 10
From: Palermo
Member No.: 86562



QUOTE (mccarthyk @ Oct 25 2012, 07:17) *
I have a copy that my friend gave my from his iTunes and it sounds really bad. I would be willing to buy the whole album just for this one song, if I can find a lossless version.

And what makes you think that is iTunes lossy compression to blame for this "bad" sound?


--------------------
... I live by long distance.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
punkrockdude
post Oct 25 2012, 10:08
Post #4





Group: Members
Posts: 244
Joined: 21-February 05
Member No.: 20022



QUOTE (Nessuno @ Oct 25 2012, 09:17) *
QUOTE (mccarthyk @ Oct 25 2012, 07:17) *
I have a copy that my friend gave my from his iTunes and it sounds really bad. I would be willing to buy the whole album just for this one song, if I can find a lossless version.

And what makes you think that is iTunes lossy compression to blame for this "bad" sound?
If it is from iTunes ("store" maybe) and it is "bad" then "maybe" would "like" a lossless file so that "he can be sure" that the "quality" is how it is "supposed" to be. "Ok"?
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Nessuno
post Oct 25 2012, 11:29
Post #5





Group: Members
Posts: 422
Joined: 16-December 10
From: Palermo
Member No.: 86562



QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Oct 25 2012, 11:08) *
If it is from iTunes ("store" maybe) and it is "bad" then "maybe" would "like" a lossless file so that "he can be sure" that the "quality" is how it is "supposed" to be. "Ok"?

"Ok", but even if there were some compression artifacts in that track and he were able to spot them (i.e. positively ABX them), he could not realistically expect a night and day difference, as he seems to imply with "really bad" as opposed to "good" he expects from lossless.

I'm leaded to think that the very bad sounding could be due to a bad mastering or mixing (i.e. artistically bad wink.gif).

This post has been edited by Nessuno: Oct 25 2012, 11:29


--------------------
... I live by long distance.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mccarthyk
post Oct 25 2012, 15:12
Post #6





Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 5-October 12
From: Portland, OR
Member No.: 103639



QUOTE (Nessuno @ Oct 25 2012, 00:17) *
And what makes you think that is iTunes lossy compression to blame for this "bad" sound?


I can assure you the "bad" I am talking about it not because of mixing. I have listened to enough low bitrate mp3s and flac (and even my share of V0mp3s) to know the difference between bad compression and bad mixing.

And even if it is just "bad mixing," I would still like to find a legitimate 44kHz/16bit or higher file, so I can be sure.

This post has been edited by mccarthyk: Oct 25 2012, 15:15
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
yourlord
post Oct 25 2012, 15:19
Post #7





Group: Members
Posts: 218
Joined: 1-March 11
Member No.: 88621



is this an AAC file or an mp3? AAC artifacting sounds different than mp3, just like Vorbis artifacting sounds different.

If it's an AAC file at a bitrate higher than 128kbps or even an mp3 at higher than 192kbps, then either your file is corrupted somehow, or that's how the song is mastered. Both those formats are virtually transparent at those rates. If there are excessive and obvious artifacts, the file is corrupt.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
probedb
post Oct 25 2012, 16:15
Post #8





Group: Members
Posts: 1231
Joined: 6-September 04
Member No.: 16817



Being metal, in my experience and I guess using lame at VBR V2 can give average bit-rates well over 192kbps so you can't guarantee it'll be transparent to all.

This post has been edited by probedb: Oct 25 2012, 16:16
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
eahm
post Oct 25 2012, 16:25
Post #9





Group: Members
Posts: 1084
Joined: 11-February 12
Member No.: 97076



You won't find it anywhere in lossless, it's an iTunes bonus track http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_Reason


--------------------
/lwAsIimz
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
greynol
post Oct 25 2012, 17:19
Post #10





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 10000
Joined: 1-April 04
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 13167



File corruption will not result in the problem as it was described. That it may be due to the delivery format being lossy is also highly doubtful.

That the track was purchased from iTunes pretty well rules out the format being mp3 which can have problems with temporal smearing due do block-size issues. Even if it was high-bitrate mp3, those who are able to detect the problem aren't going to characterize it as "sounding bad".

Bad mixing/mastering is the most likely answer. Another possible answer is that this track was sourced from lossy to begin with and may have even been transcoded. This could be in addition to bad mixing/mastering.

A short fair-use clip might help us make better sense of the problem rather than leaving us speculating.

Also, remember TOS #9 when replying. Any violation of this rule will carry serious consequences. I we have a zero-tolerance policy about this and it is not up for debate.

This post has been edited by greynol: Oct 25 2012, 17:23


--------------------
I should publish a list of forum idiots.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Porcus
post Oct 25 2012, 17:32
Post #11





Group: Members
Posts: 1842
Joined: 30-November 06
Member No.: 38207



If the file is an mp3, then maybe the OP's friend needs to learn a thing or two about transcoding. Or about not transcoding.

This brings me to a slightly different question: what is iTunes' policy if a band sends them a lossy? Will they just transcode it, or will they return a polite instruction requesting a lossless and explaining why (... which would keep some, but not every,ignorant from decoding to WAV and sending that one)?

This post has been edited by Porcus: Oct 25 2012, 17:34


--------------------
One day in the Year of the Fox came a time remembered well
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
punkrockdude
post Oct 25 2012, 21:11
Post #12





Group: Members
Posts: 244
Joined: 21-February 05
Member No.: 20022



QUOTE (yourlord @ Oct 25 2012, 16:19) *
is this an AAC file or an mp3? AAC artifacting sounds different than mp3, just like Vorbis artifacting sounds different.

If it's an AAC file at a bitrate higher than 128kbps or even an mp3 at higher than 192kbps, then either your file is corrupted somehow, or that's how the song is mastered. Both those formats are virtually transparent at those rates. If there are excessive and obvious artifacts, the file is corrupt.
You want to bet some money that songs from iTunes Store does not have artifacts even though they are ~256kbps? I don't what the cause is but only that there are cases.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
greynol
post Oct 25 2012, 21:21
Post #13





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 10000
Joined: 1-April 04
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 13167



So that we don't run off-topic, this thread is not about artifacts with iTunes files in general; it is about concerns regarding this specific track in particular. At this point I am going to require that a 30-second (or less) clip of the decoded track be presented in lossless format demonstrating the alleged problem before further speculation be entertained. Failure to comply with this request may lead to closure of the thread.

If you wish to discuss audible artifacts with iTunes Store purchases, feel free to open a new topic.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by greynol: Oct 25 2012, 21:28


--------------------
I should publish a list of forum idiots.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
yourlord
post Oct 25 2012, 22:01
Post #14





Group: Members
Posts: 218
Joined: 1-March 11
Member No.: 88621



QUOTE (punkrockdude @ Oct 25 2012, 16:11) *
You want to bet some money that songs from iTunes Store does not have artifacts even though they are ~256kbps? I don't what the cause is but only that there are cases.


Let me qualify my statement..

Properly encoded AAC files at 128kbps or higher, encoded from a lossless original source, should be audibly transparent to all but a tiny fraction of humanity.

I make no claims about the competency of Apple in properly sourcing and encoding their files.

Bring on the sample file please, but even a sample file is useless without a lossless sample of the source material to compare against.. Even if the provided itunes sample is garbage, we have no way of knowing if it's due to the encode or the source.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
greynol
post Oct 25 2012, 22:21
Post #15





Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 10000
Joined: 1-April 04
From: San Francisco
Member No.: 13167



It is useful if there is at least some consensus that the track sounds bad and the sound is not attributable to a lossy artifact. Pumping, too much bass and excessive DRC are all examples to something that may be considered bad-sounding but will have nothing to do with lossy encoding.

Here's something I just dug up regarding artifacts that are attributable to lossy encoding:
http://www.csie.nctu.edu.tw/~cmliu/Courses...n/Artifacts.pdf

As I already mentioned, there is no way of knowing if lossy artifacts were present on the master submitted to Apple.


--------------------
I should publish a list of forum idiots.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
yourlord
post Oct 25 2012, 22:39
Post #16





Group: Members
Posts: 218
Joined: 1-March 11
Member No.: 88621



QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 25 2012, 17:21) *
It is useful if there is at least some consensus that the track sounds bad and the sound is not attributable to a lossy artifact.


Excellent point
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Porcus
post Oct 26 2012, 12:01
Post #17





Group: Members
Posts: 1842
Joined: 30-November 06
Member No.: 38207



QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 25 2012, 22:21) *
If you wish to discuss audible artifacts with iTunes Store purchases, feel free to open a new topic.


Users might of course pick up the old ones first, to see if there is a need for a new. E.g.:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=94799
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=95640
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=97023


--------------------
One day in the Year of the Fox came a time remembered well
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mccarthyk
post Oct 27 2012, 20:01
Post #18





Group: Members
Posts: 20
Joined: 5-October 12
From: Portland, OR
Member No.: 103639



QUOTE (greynol @ Oct 25 2012, 13:21) *
So that we don't run off-topic, this thread is not about artifacts with iTunes files in general; it is about concerns regarding this specific track in particular. At this point I am going to require that a 30-second (or less) clip of the decoded track be presented in lossless format demonstrating the alleged problem before further speculation be entertained. Failure to comply with this request may lead to closure of the thread.

If you wish to discuss audible artifacts with iTunes Store purchases, feel free to open a new topic.

Thank you.


I think you have forgotten that this thread is not about my ability tell the difference between bad compression and bad mixing. You seem to be a very angry person, and none of your comments on this tread have helped at all with finding a lossless version of the song I am looking for.

I would like to apologize to all of the people looking at this thread for the first time, for Mr. greynol's immature reaction to many of the posts here. I am still very interested in finding a lossless version of the song Elective Amnesia.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Soap
post Oct 27 2012, 20:03
Post #19





Group: Members
Posts: 1015
Joined: 19-November 06
Member No.: 37767



Can we just shit-can this thread already? OP clearly isn't at HA to discuss,learn, or even educate. OP knows already what the problem is, has the solution, and will settle for nothing less than unobtanium!



--------------------
Creature of habit.
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Closed TopicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th September 2014 - 10:08