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Will you ask for a refund for the In rainbows download? If the audio q, If the audio quality or the format chosen is not to your liking willl
Will you ask for a refund for the In rainbows download? If the audio q
Will you ask for a refund for the In rainbows download?
Didn't pay, won't care. [ 31 ] ** [31.00%]
Ill take anything, [ 8 ] ** [8.00%]
average mp3 is good enough for me. [ 19 ] ** [19.00%]
no vorbis? no free speech, no quality, give me my money back [ 3 ] ** [3.00%]
lossless or bust, if its not a Flac lossless I wan't my cash back. [ 26 ] ** [26.00%]
they can keep the money I'll download it when it hits the stores [ 13 ] ** [13.00%]
Total Votes: 148
  
Dave_K
post Oct 10 2007, 12:29
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I was hoping for 256Kb and preferably VBR, but was half expecting 128Kb from a poor encoder. 160Kb CBR LAME doesn't sound bad; I doubt I'll notice any loss of quality when listening on my MP3 player, and I bet it'll be perfectly fine for 99% of other downloaders. I'll definitely be downloading a copy and paying what I think it's worth based on the music, rather than giving them less because they didn't meet my lossy encoding preferences. Wait until December and I'm sure there'll be FLAC rips floating around, although I that's a legal grey area...

I don't really understand whyso many people still don't use VBR; it's been a long time since I've heard of an MP3 player that doesn't support it, and the benefits are pretty obvious. Yet most of the legal sites offering MP3s seem to stick with it, and from a quick look at current MP3 torrents, it looks like CBR MP3s (especially @ 192Kb & 320Kb) are still very popular for less legitimate MP3 downloads. Apart from for streaming audio CBR seems obsolete, it's time MP3 encloder frontends stopped using it as the default; I assume that's why it still turns up so often.
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Dologan
post Oct 10 2007, 12:51
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Streaming, perhaps?
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shadowking
post Oct 10 2007, 13:10
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Ripping councils, r3mix etc have scared normal people away with their crazy informal voodoo lines and hacks. For the normal user CBR is official pro way , VBR is for some geek ripping scene. They just want 128k or so, not one month of --r3mix, one month of --alt-preset . If from the start VBR was used wisely like CBR: -v or V0~9 maybe there would be better adoption today.

The most genious step for LAME is when the devs merged --alt-preset into CBR / VBR with v3.94. This way like Vorbis, MPC , AAC the devs can tweak things without forcing the end user to adopt new settings.

This post has been edited by shadowking: Oct 10 2007, 13:15


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Martin F.
post Oct 10 2007, 13:33
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IMHO VBR is appropriate even for streaming when you choose a reasonable upper bitrate limit, to save traffic on "easy" parts. And small bitrate peaks shouldn’t matter with some buffering.


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BradPDX
post Oct 10 2007, 19:33
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I wouldn't wait for any commercial releases in anything other than MP3 and AAC. Despite HA's penchant for Ogg/Musepack/What-have-you, those formats have no presence among the music buying public. They may be wonderful, but that isn't the point. The great majority of users would have no clue what to do with those files, and frankly that is not likely to change.

That said, MP3 is a fine choice. But I am very puzzled that Radiohead didn't follow the model used by eMusic and Amazon and provide VBR files @ 192-256 kbps; this has already been a demonstrated commercial success and thus the barriers are nil. It makes little sense to offer files in a lower quality format than current commercial standards.

While I applaud Radiohead's efforts to forge a new path, I find this disappointing. I might buy the CD at some point if the music is decent, but otherwise this ain't working for me.
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Martin F.
post Oct 10 2007, 19:44
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Why not offer multiple formats? sad.gif


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Iceberg
post Oct 11 2007, 01:07
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In my opinion, LAME 3.93 CBR 160 kbps joint-stereo is just nice and fair.

My choice would have been LAME 3.97 -V 2, but 99% of downloaders will be perfectly happy with CBR 160.

I would suggest an ABX test against the CD when it's released and then we will know if the choice was right or not.

In any case, CBR 160 is a good compromise between space and quality being joint-stereo and all.

"Suave" to my ears, and I'm not even a fan wink.gif
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Canar
post Oct 11 2007, 01:29
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QUOTE (Synthetic Soul @ Oct 10 2007, 01:55) *
You can't seriously believe that artists are going to provide Vorbis or Musepack downloads over MP3?

MP3 can be played by almost anything. I know Vorbis has some hardware support, but Musepack? Even AAC is limiting.


My point there was one of quality. Yeah, okay, I used a bit of hyperbole. Their choice simply shows their attention to detail and their commitment to quality. Here they've shown nothing even resembling a commitment to quality. 160 CBR? I haven't bothered with that since before Winamp was skinnable, unless it's something exceptionally rare.

If an artist were to offer something in Musepack or Vorbis, I'd definitely think to myself: "Hey, this guy seems to know what's going on. He's got a clue." That counts to me. It means that the artist has either done his research or is able to hear lossy encoding. In either case, I am impressed.

This post has been edited by Canar: Oct 11 2007, 01:32


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windowshade
post Oct 11 2007, 03:31
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QUOTE (Martin F. @ Oct 10 2007, 12:44) *
Why not offer multiple formats? sad.gif
Because it's a pain in the butt.
QUOTE (William of Ockham @ circa 1500 AD)
entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
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Martin F.
post Oct 11 2007, 03:47
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praeter necessitatem … Anyway, for me FLAC is sufficient. I use it on my portable DAP, too.


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hushypushy
post Oct 11 2007, 04:15
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Listened to it today...not sure if I was hearing MP3 artifacts or just effects in the music. I don't get why, if they were using LAME, they didn't just use preset standard? unsure.gif
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windowshade
post Oct 11 2007, 04:44
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QUOTE (Martin F. @ Oct 10 2007, 20:47) *
Anyway, for me FLAC is sufficient.
Agreed. Occam would be proud.
QUOTE (hushypushy @ Oct 10 2007, 21:15) *
Listened to it today...not sure if I was hearing MP3 artifacts or just effects in the music.
Hilarious. When Hail was released as a copy protected red-book-non-compliant polycarbonate optical storage disc intended to litter the rips with digital artifacts and render the copied files unlistenable, my only question was: HOW CAN YOU TELL? Hey, my Radiohead album is all glitchy. Is that good or bad? I'll have to check with Pitchfork...
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jcoalson
post Oct 11 2007, 04:58
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QUOTE (Martin F. @ Oct 10 2007, 13:44) *
Why not offer multiple formats? sad.gif
exactly what I was thinking. this is kind of a missed opportunity... it's pretty easy to script up a bunch of different bitrates, mp3, vorbis, flac. eliminates all the complaining. and I actually don't think the bandwidth matters much, selling bits like this is very high gross margin anyway.

the success is in the presentation, have just a little quality slider, plus a link to follow for technical people who want to get right in to exactly what it is they're getting. being first with all the publicity, they would have collected valuable data about what people actually want when given a choice, data that no one else has.

too bad.

(edit:typo)

This post has been edited by jcoalson: Oct 11 2007, 05:00
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Axon
post Oct 11 2007, 05:53
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Radiohead could sure settle this issue for good by sourcing the vinyl and CD masters from the MP3s.
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trev
post Oct 12 2007, 13:06
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the "commercial standard" unfortunately is the aac 128kbps quality that itunes has saturated the download market with.

160kbps 3.93 lame is fairly close if not higher quality, i'm guessing they were aiming for a file size and quality very similar to an itunes release. now yes i hate the idea of paying for lossy, especially for such a middle ground bitrate, but that reasoning sounds fair to me.
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poohead
post Oct 12 2007, 13:36
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Well I paid for the bundle, but since learning that there will be a standard CD release via one of the major labels, I have requested a refund.

I was more than happy to support them for what they appeared to be doing... but since it is obviously all a carefully devised marketing scam, I don't plan to support them at all. To be honest it has tarnished my respect for Radiohead, who have sadly become the Pearl Jam of current times.


Sellouts...
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Gow
post Oct 12 2007, 17:08
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http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1571737/2...radiohead.jhtml


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BradPDX
post Oct 12 2007, 18:43
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I paid a few bucks for it to see what all the fuss is about. The actual amount is too small to bother with any refunds unless I firmly believe it to be justified "on principle", which it is not.

The sound quality is perfectly adequate for most purposes, I found nothing glaringly wrong in 2 casual listenings with decent headphones. Given that there is no "price" defined by the artist, this leaves me with little to complain about. If ever there was a case of caveat emptor, this is it. If you think it is worth nothing, pay nothing. If you think it is worth $50, go right ahead and pay it. No problems.

Given the "set your own price" groundrules laid out by Radiohead, I don't see a leg to stand on with respect to refunds. Go ahead and try, see what happens.

As to the album itself - well, 160kbps is certainly good enough to determine musical quality. I cannot say this makes me any more of a Radiohead fan than before, and my feelings about the band have always been lukewarm. Had I been 16 years old when OK Computer came out, they may have been big favorites. But I was already 40 years old by then and the sentiments felt juvenile; I'd already had that period of life, those feelings and a soundtrack. For whatever set of reasons, I find In Rainbows trying to cover that same ground. It has a few beautiful moments, but feels like old melodrama to me.

Next.
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Remedial Sound
post Oct 12 2007, 18:45
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QUOTE (Gow @ Oct 12 2007, 12:08) *

There are so many ignorant statements with regard to bitrate/quality I don't know where to begin.
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poohead
post Oct 12 2007, 21:52
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QUOTE (BradPDX @ Oct 13 2007, 03:43) *
Given the "set your own price" groundrules laid out by Radiohead, I don't see a leg to stand on with respect to refunds. Go ahead and try, see what happens.


There is no 'set your own price' for the box set, it costs 40 pounds.
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TREX6662k6
post Oct 12 2007, 22:10
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QUOTE (Remedial Sound @ Oct 12 2007, 18:45) *
QUOTE (Gow @ Oct 12 2007, 12:08) *

There are so many ignorant statements with regard to bitrate/quality I don't know where to begin.


QUOTE
Radiohead's previous albums were already available as MP3s encoded at 320 kilobits per second — the highest-possible compression rate in the format (though still not nearing the quality of a compact disc)

Here will do.


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JasonQ
post Oct 12 2007, 22:42
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The big question is :

Is the music itself any good? I just bought it for GBP 1.50, and so we'll see.

BTW anyone who would be outraged or upset about something they can choose how much they want to pay for is a good candidate for the "scum of the earth" club.

- Jason
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BradPDX
post Oct 12 2007, 22:49
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QUOTE (poohead @ Oct 12 2007, 13:52) *
QUOTE (BradPDX @ Oct 13 2007, 03:43) *

Given the "set your own price" groundrules laid out by Radiohead, I don't see a leg to stand on with respect to refunds. Go ahead and try, see what happens.


There is no 'set your own price' for the box set, it costs 40 pounds.


Right. And I will bet that the box set is somehow recorded at a higher bitrate laugh.gif

I doubt that the box set could be returned for quality issues unless there was something demonstrably out of the ordinary, just like any other CD. Plus, the box set has real manufacturing costs that must be recouped.

I was referring only to the open price for the downloads. People are upset that they are not of higher quality, but they are priced such that the argument is nullified.
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poohead
post Oct 13 2007, 02:08
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QUOTE (BradPDX @ Oct 13 2007, 07:49) *
People are upset that they are not of higher quality, but they are priced such that the argument is nullified.


That much I agree with...
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novocane
post Oct 13 2007, 19:59
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I payed a "normal" price for the CD in the stores but I´m a fan, I expected to be at least 192 kbps so in December when the box is released I´ll download it and that´s end of the story!
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