Skip to main content ↑ ↓

Notice

Please note that most of the software linked on this forum is likely to be safe to use. If you are unsure, feel free to ask in the relevant topics, or send a private message to an administrator or moderator. To help curb the problems of false positives, or in the event that you do find actual malware, you can contribute through the article linked here.
Topic: minidisc (Read 5567 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

minidisc

My roommate just got one of these players. Is it just me, or is that whole format crap? I listened to it, and that compression scheme they use is horrible. It sounded like a 96kbps mp3 file. On top of that, the disks can only hold like 140 megs. With mp3 players becoming more popular nowadays, do you think my roommate bought one of the last minidisc players?

minidisc

Reply #1 –
It just occured to me that he may have SOURCED the files from 96k mp3s.

If that's the case and it IS a good format, I appologise. 

minidisc

Reply #2 –
atrac is shit

if i would be a developer of portable players i would simply store the decoders on the media. like winamps input directory. so everybody would be able to use his own file format + decoder. that would be great. a standard for this decoders would be nice too like all hardware players could use the same decoders.

minidisc

Reply #3 –
ATRAC Type R is said to be one of the best lossy compression schemes avaliable. The quality you get from optical CD > MD dubs with ATRAC Type R is outstanding. The LP modes are different though, they are 132kbps and 66kbps each. LP2 sound something along the lines of a 160-192 Kbps MP3, LP4 is utter crap and should never be used for audio, maybe for lectures and what-have-you.

Anyhow, it is definetly not crap, even older ATRAC versions are very very good, and IMO beat any MP3 setting / bitrate (in SP mode that is).

Maybe like you've said, the source files were not of a very high quality, and keep in mind that while using Net MD what you get are LP2 and LP4 modes, SP mode is avaliable but it is a fake, OpenMG converts the source to LP2 (132kbps) and then masks it as SP (this is supposedly to create compatability with older non MDLP models.

Well my .02$ worth.

Regards,
Okinawa Joe ®

minidisc

Reply #4 –
Quote
ATRAC Type R is said to be one of the best lossy compression schemes avaliable. The quality you get from optical CD > MD dubs with ATRAC Type R is outstanding. The LP modes are different though, they are 132kbps and 66kbps each. LP2 sound something along the lines of a 160-192 Kbps MP3, LP4 is utter crap and should never be used for audio, maybe for lectures and what-have-you.

Anyhow, it is definetly not crap, even older ATRAC versions are very very good, and IMO beat any MP3 setting / bitrate (in SP mode that is).

Maybe like you've said, the source files were not of a very high quality, and keep in mind that while using Net MD what you get are LP2 and LP4 modes, SP mode is avaliable but it is a fake, OpenMG converts the source to LP2 (132kbps) and then masks it as SP (this is supposedly to create compatability with older non MDLP models.

Well my .02$ worth.

Regards,

After some more research, it looks like he's using LP4. That's the problem.

Even with ATRAC compression being very good (of course it is at 280 kbps  ) you still only have 140 megs to work with.

minidisc

Reply #5 –
Sony made a huge mistake advertising the Minidisc as a replacement to CDs in the 90's and then again advertising the Net MD protocol as some sort of MP3-like player. A Minidisc isn't and shouldn't be considered an MP3 device, it's capable of transcoding and recording to ATRAC3 your MP3s, however that isn't it's main purpose.

IMO nothing beats Minidisc as a portable audio device, you got random access, CD quality dubs (when using ATRAC Type R), you can edit, move, split, group, delete tracks as you see fit.

And for live recording it is awesome, whatever your source might be, be it a soundboard, a DSB or a mic, the results are outstanding, even in LP2. And no I am not a fanboy.

Regards,
Okinawa Joe ®

minidisc

Reply #6 –
yea minidisc is great...

i have a Sharp MD player recorder with Sharp version 6 ATRAC DSP... for the use i use it for (running, in the car, etc) i have heard no artifacts.

with optical out from my SantaCruz to the optical in on the MD it gives great quality... plus the discs are only like 2 bucks a pop... far less per minute than any flash memory or whatever for a MP3 player.

Overall i'd say MiniDisc is the best portable audio when considering Price, Sound Quality, and durability (once read about a disc being placed in afreezer overnight, then after allowing it to wark, dropping out a 2 story window, then running over it with a car, and it lost no quality.)

Anyhow, there are 2 site you should see... Minidisc.org and Minidisco.com both are great sites... one for selling, one fo rtech info and community stuff.

minidisc

Reply #7 –
Quote
with optical out from my SantaCruz to the optical in on the MD it gives great quality...

My SantaCruz only has digital out, but not optical.
Where did you find the optical out?

minidisc

Reply #8 –
Quote
Quote
with optical out from my SantaCruz to the optical in on the MD it gives great quality...

My SantaCruz only has digital out, but not optical.
Where did you find the optical out?

i bought a digital >  optical converter on ebay...

hard as hell to find for a good price... had to have it shipped from hong kong.

just in case you were wondering, they make USB interfaces that have optical... and theres some new one that has optical coax and RCA digital outs thru the use of a USB port.

yea but optical is nice

minidisc

Reply #9 –
Quote
ATRAC Type R is said to be one of the best lossy compression schemes avaliable. The quality you get from optical CD > MD dubs with ATRAC Type R is outstanding.... Anyhow, it is definetly not crap, even older ATRAC versions are very very good, and IMO beat any MP3 setting / bitrate (in SP mode that is).

According to my own tests, ATRAC 4.5 (which is very close to ATRAC-R in SP mode) is quite worse than a LAME --aps mp3. I'd say it is even worse than a LAME --ap 192 Kbps mp3. It is specially bad in terms of pre-echo artifacting. More info at http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....t=3373&hl=atrac . Take into account that iirc, ATRAC basic format was developed more than 10 years ago.

minidisc

Reply #10 –
Quote
Anyhow, it is definetly not crap, even older ATRAC versions are very very good, and IMO beat any MP3 setting / bitrate (in SP mode that is).

That's interesting for you to say that ATRAC beats any MP3 setting.  Unfortunately, you have mentioned in another thread that you "are not quite fond of VBR" and only use 192k CBR MP3's.  You really shouldn't make generalizations like that when you haven't done any modern encoding.

I don't consider myself to be terribly picky about my audio, but I can certainly tell that ATRAC-R is worse than LAME --alt-preset standard, and ATRAC-R is higher bitrate.

It seems that MD users out there just don't want to admit that MD is over.  I guess it's because most people with MD players have several of them.  That's fine if you still find the thing useful, but it is A COMPLETE LIE for you to say: "LP2 sound something along the lines of a 160-192 Kbps MP3."  That's RIDICULOUS from both a practical and a theoretical standpoint.

The only thing I've used MD for in the past several years is recording live performances.  They're great for that.  If you still use MD for a portable device, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's asinine for you to argue it's better than an MP3 player for anything besides recording.

minidisc

Reply #11 –
Quote
ATRAC Type R is said to be one of the best lossy compression schemes avaliable.

By who?

minidisc

Reply #12 –
I'm no golden ears, and even I can tell the difference between ATRAC Type R and CD for 'difficult' songs (where 'difficult' isn't actually all that difficult).
With my previous MD player (ATRAC 4.5) there were artifacts that annoyed me in about 10% of my digital copies from CD, so things are improving.

When people compare LP2 with 192Kbps MP3s I have to assume they've been listening to Blade encoded MP3s or perhaps haven't even bothered to listen to a few LP2s before deciding that they're experts.

Not that minidisc is terrible or anything: for me LP2 is similar to 128k MP3s - I can't tell they're rubbish unless I compare them to the original or listen to them very carefully.

minidisc

Reply #13 –
Quote
hard as hell to find for a good price... had to have it shipped from hong kong.

Sounds good to me because I am living in HK.

Btw, what is the brand of that converter? Thanks.

minidisc

Reply #14 –
Quote
once read about a disc being placed in afreezer overnight, then after allowing it to wark, dropping out a 2 story window, then running over it with a car, and it lost no quality.

Yeah, but you could probably do the same with a CD-R inside a slimcase (preferably with an elastic around it to prevent it from opening).

I use a RioVolt SP-250 myself.

minidisc

Reply #15 –
Quote
Quote
hard as hell to find for a good price... had to have it shipped from hong kong.

Sounds good to me because I am living in HK.

Btw, what is the brand of that converter? Thanks.

no idea... there is no brand on the unit itself... it is a small box, maybe 2 inches wide by 3 inches long and about an inch think.

it has 3 holes, one for AC adapter, one for RCA input, and One for optical out... i have to say that if i saw it in a store it'd be sketchy, as it was no known brand, but it works like a charm.

minidisc

Reply #16 –
Quote
Quote
once read about a disc being placed in afreezer overnight, then after allowing it to wark, dropping out a 2 story window, then running over it with a car, and it lost no quality.

Yeah, but you could probably do the same with a CD-R inside a slimcase (preferably with an elastic around it to prevent it from opening).

I use a RioVolt SP-250 myself.

Talk about grasping at straws!

How many people would argue in favor of a format because of asinine durability tests?  You're not going to find any MD players that will work after they're dropped 30 feet and run over by a car, so who the hell cares if you can do that to the media?

How about this:  I use reinforced air-tight Titanium 8-track tapes for all my music.  It sounds like crap, but it is important for me to have media that still works after being submerged to a depth of 500 meters then put in a drill press.

minidisc

Reply #17 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
once read about a disc being placed in afreezer overnight, then after allowing it to wark, dropping out a 2 story window, then running over it with a car, and it lost no quality.

Yeah, but you could probably do the same with a CD-R inside a slimcase (preferably with an elastic around it to prevent it from opening).

I use a RioVolt SP-250 myself.

Talk about grasping at straws!

How many people would argue in favor of a format because of asinine durability tests?  You're not going to find any MD players that will work after they're dropped 30 feet and run over by a car, so who the hell cares if you can do that to the media?

How about this:  I use reinforced air-tight Titanium 8-track tapes for all my music.  It sounds like crap, but it is important for me to have media that still works after being submerged to a depth of 500 meters then put in a drill press.

i dont see what you mean?

do you keep the cd's you play in your player all the time?

i didnt really mean to try to say that why i liek minidisc... altho durability doenst hurt.


i am just trying to say that i personally like minidisc as a portable format, as it is durable, re writable, movable tracks etc.

not trying to start an argument

thanks