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Trying to identify a stolen/borrowed musical theme
cliveb
post Jan 31 2013, 11:58
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It's been a very long time (ie. several years) since I last listened to "Trepass" by Genesis. When I got to the track "Stagnation", I heard at the end a theme which struck me as very familiar. Here it is:

Attached File  stag_frag.mp3 ( 175.05K ) Number of downloads: 226

I am convinced I have heard this exact same theme used somewhere else, but played on electric guitar, and am now wracking my brains to try and figure out where. It's not important, of course - it's just bugging me. Can anyone help?
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Engelsstaub
post Jan 31 2013, 12:28
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That does have a familiar sound to it. I can't place it or think of anything it may have been jacked from, but it's possible that it's just that sort of tune that gives one a bit of déjà vu. (...or maybe it was borrowed and somebody else knows from whence. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.)


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cliveb
post Jan 31 2013, 17:54
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QUOTE (Engelsstaub @ Jan 31 2013, 11:28) *
I can't place it or think of anything it may have been jacked from...

Given that Trespass was released in 1970, and the guitar theme going round in my head sounds much more recent, my feeling is that someone else stole the theme from Trespass, not the other way round.

Or perhaps it's a motif from classical music that rock bands have ripped off on multiple occasions?
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BFG
post Jan 31 2013, 19:38
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QUOTE (cliveb @ Jan 31 2013, 10:54) *
Given that Trespass was released in 1970, and the guitar theme going round in my head sounds much more recent, my feeling is that someone else stole the theme from Trespass, not the other way round.

Or perhaps it's a motif from classical music that rock bands have ripped off on multiple occasions?

Wow, that does sound familiar...but I can't place it either. I assume MusicBrainz/Picard didn't come up with anything?
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cliveb
post Jan 31 2013, 20:04
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QUOTE (BFG @ Jan 31 2013, 18:38) *
Wow, that does sound familiar...but I can't place it either. I assume MusicBrainz/Picard didn't come up with anything?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with MusicBrainz. From your comment I wondered if it was some kind of service that you can upload a music clip to and it would attempt to identify it. But after a brief look at their website that doesn't appear to be the case. How were you envisaging I could use it in this case?
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db1989
post Jan 31 2013, 20:28
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MusicBrainz is a database of metadata; Picard is its associated tagger, complete with an acoustic matching algorithm.
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Kees de Visser
post Jan 31 2013, 21:18
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I was curious to try out the online melody search engines. Pop music is not at all my area, but I can play the melody on a virtual keyboard, like on www.musipedia.org and see what comes out.

Best match seems to be Mott the Hoople (David Bowie): All the young dudes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKvNtAVZyOc

Could that be it ?
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chi
post Jan 31 2013, 23:45
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 31 2013, 21:28) *
MusicBrainz is a database of metadata; Picard is its associated tagger, complete with an acoustic matching algorithm.


However, this algorithm (AcoustID) is designed for identifying particular audio files with only minor variations, such as compression artefacts or a small offset. Two different versions of the same song, even recorded by the same musicians, won’t appear similar to it; even less completely different music that just shares (part of) a melody. There are other acoustic fingerprint algorithms for that purpose, however.

MusicBrainz (the database) could still be helpful because it also records relationships between musical works. In this case there is no relevant information available in the database, unfortunately (yet – anyone could enter it at any time, of course!).
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cliveb
post Feb 1 2013, 00:07
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QUOTE (Kees de Visser @ Jan 31 2013, 20:18) *
Best match seems to be Mott the Hoople (David Bowie): All the young dudes

It had already occurred to me that the beginning of the theme is similar to All The Young Dudes, but I was pretty sure that wasn't it. But then again, the mind can play funny tricks. I was just hoping someone here would say "yes, of course that is <song X by artist Y>". Seems that isn't to be. Thanks to everyone who has had a shot at it.
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Dynamic
post Feb 1 2013, 12:10
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It sounds only vaguely like something else to me, not like a clear match, much in the style of Rob Paravonian's Pachelbel Rant (youtube).


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Jason43
post Feb 1 2013, 12:37
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There is a version of the Genesis track 'Stagnation' on the 2011 album 'Timeless' by The Watch, as you mention 'but played on electric guitar' which apprears to be the case with The Watchs' version. Incidentally the version of 'Stagnation' which apprears on the album was taken from The Watch’s ‘Blue Show’ tour in 2010 featuring Steve’s brother John Hackett on flute. Is there a chance that you've heard that version?
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extrabigmehdi
post Feb 1 2013, 14:09
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The website "who sampled" (whosampled.com) might help you.
According to the website, the song Stagnation by Genesis, is using a sample from
an other song from Genesis, "I Know What I Like (Live)"
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cliveb
post Feb 1 2013, 15:15
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QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Feb 1 2013, 13:09) *
The website "who sampled" (whosampled.com) might help you.
According to the website, the song Stagnation by Genesis, is using a sample from
an other song from Genesis, "I Know What I Like (Live)"

Aha! Mystery solved. Many thanks. It is indeed "I Know What I Like" on "Seconds Out" that I was thinking of.
So it wasn't stolen - rather recycled by the same band.
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krabapple
post Feb 2 2013, 07:19
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QUOTE (cliveb @ Feb 1 2013, 10:15) *
QUOTE (extrabigmehdi @ Feb 1 2013, 13:09) *
The website "who sampled" (whosampled.com) might help you.
According to the website, the song Stagnation by Genesis, is using a sample from
an other song from Genesis, "I Know What I Like (Live)"

Aha! Mystery solved. Many thanks. It is indeed "I Know What I Like" on "Seconds Out" that I was thinking of.
So it wasn't stolen - rather recycled by the same band.



then whosampled.com is confused. Trespass predates Selling England by several years.

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cliveb
post Feb 2 2013, 16:29
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QUOTE (krabapple @ Feb 2 2013, 06:19) *
then whosampled.com is confused. Trespass predates Selling England by several years.

That is right, and I think whosampled.com does get it right. Perhaps extrabigmehdi read it the other way round, but the way I interpret what they say, they do indeed state that the live song on Seconds Out is using a theme from Trespass.
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