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Recommended Encoder Versions and Settings
QuantumKnot
post May 25 2004, 00:41
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QUOTE (Prodoc @ May 25 2004, 08:54 AM)
QUOTE (QuantumKnot)
From the Vorbis listening test and the recent 128 kbps multiformat test, Aoyumi's aoTuV Vorbis tuning was determined to be the best Vorbis encoder and hence it is now the recommended encoder.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding things a bit but shouldn't it state that aoTuV is recommended for lower bitrates and GT3b2 is recommended for higher bitrates?

I thought that would be implied in the "128 kbps multiformat test'. But it was only a very quick change I made to get it up there. I'll definitely rework it, now that I have some time. smile.gif
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bani
post May 30 2004, 11:49
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QUOTE (QuantumKnot @ Sep 4 2003, 09:39 PM)
[Linux:

oggenc aoTuV beta 2 (static gcc compile)

not very static at all tongue.gif

$ ./oggenc-aotuv
./oggenc-aotuv: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by ./oggenc-aotuv)

how about 100% static version for those of us without glibc2.3?
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QuantumKnot
post May 30 2004, 11:56
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QUOTE (bani @ May 30 2004, 08:49 PM)
not very static at all tongue.gif

$ ./oggenc-aotuv
./oggenc-aotuv: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by ./oggenc-aotuv)

how about 100% static version for those of us without glibc2.3?

Oh. I'll look into it then. smile.gif Judging from the filesize, I was confident that it included everything. Maybe not smile.gif
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de Mon
post Jun 13 2004, 23:05
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I also think GT3b2 can be newbie confusing. Actualy most of them don't know of New/Old versions. And somebody can accidentally use GT3b2-Old.
I propose to name merged version as GT3F (Final) or GT3S (Stable)


--------------------
Ogg Vorbis for music and speech [q-2.0 - q6.0]
FLAC for recordings to be edited
Speex for speech
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xmixahlx
post Jun 14 2004, 01:17
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well, theres nothing "stable" about it

it doesn't at all address the problems <q4, and tests have shown that >q4 needs better/more tuning to be (more) effective than aotuv is

at this point it should be considered to tune aotuv for higher bitrates and drop gt3 all together... garf doesn't tune it any more, and all later versions from gt3b1 are just hacks anyways...


later


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Tang
post Jun 24 2004, 14:24
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QUOTE (xmixahlx @ Jun 13 2004, 04:17 PM)
well, theres nothing "stable" about it

it doesn't at all address the problems <q4, and tests have shown that >q4 needs better/more tuning to be (more) effective than aotuv is

at this point it should be considered to tune aotuv for higher bitrates and drop gt3 all together... garf doesn't tune it any more, and all later versions from gt3b1 are just hacks anyways...


later

Seems to be a good choice to avoid any confusion indeed...
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kidi
post Jul 17 2004, 22:49
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Hi! Could somebody help me? :
I`d like to use a lowpass filter when encoding with low bitrates (EAC). What is the additional parameter for the command line? Thanks in advance.
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QuantumKnot
post Jul 18 2004, 03:34
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QUOTE (kidi @ Jul 18 2004, 07:49 AM)
Hi! Could somebody help me? :
I`d like to use a lowpass filter when encoding with low bitrates (EAC). What is the additional parameter for the command line? Thanks in advance.
*



CODE
--advanced-encode-option lowpass_frequency=NN


for NN kHz cutoff.

This post has been edited by QuantumKnot: Sep 26 2004, 01:58
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NoXFeR
post Aug 3 2004, 14:52
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I think it would be nice if some information about possible candidates for next recommended versions is on the first post of the thread. That way people can get some information about them without searching wild. Like information about the Megamix merge and testing of it.

This post has been edited by NoXFeR: Aug 3 2004, 14:55
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QuantumKnot
post Aug 7 2004, 02:34
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QUOTE (NoXFeR @ Aug 3 2004, 11:52 PM)
I think it would be nice if some information about possible candidates for next recommended versions is on the first post of the thread. That way people can get some information about them without searching wild. Like information about the Megamix merge and testing of it.
*


There is already a thread that lists out all the different versions.

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=21126

As for candidates for the next recommended versions, I can only decide via listening tests from others as well as their opinions. Vorbis development is in a state of flux at the moment so one version chosen as recommended may soon be outdated by another (eg. Vorbis 1.1 may be coming out soon)
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esa372
post Sep 10 2004, 14:27
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QUOTE (QuantumKnot @ Sep 4 2003, 10:39 PM)
How do I know which encoder was used to make this Ogg Vorbis file?
Using either the ogginfo program or file info in your player, you can tell from the vendor tag:

Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20020717 => 1.0

Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (1.0.1)  => 1.0.1

I've got a question regarding this:
I'm using dBpowerAmp music converter (Release 10.1) to convert from FLAC to Ogg (-q6). According to dBpowerAmp, it's using 'Release 11.1 (Ogg V1.0.1)' of Ogg Vorbis. But if I look at the tag of any given converted file more than once, it displays different information. One time it may read 'Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (1.0.1)' and the next time I open it, it may read 'Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20020717'.

Any idea what's going on? (or what version I'm actually using?)

Thanks in advance for the help!

~esa372
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Peter Harris
post Sep 10 2004, 17:32
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QUOTE (esa372 @ Sep 10 2004, 08:27 AM)
But if I look at the tag of any given converted file more than once, it displays different information.  One time it may read 'Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20030909 (1.0.1)' and the next time I open it, it may read 'Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20020717'.

Any idea what's going on?  (or what version I'm actually using?)
*

The old Winamp Vorbis plugin would overwrite the actual encoder version with its version whenever you changed any of the tags. This doesn't change the quality of the encode, it only makes the encoder string incorrect.

Maybe whatever you're using to tag your Vorbis files has the same bug?
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QuantumKnot
post Sep 12 2004, 01:50
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IIRC, the old Vorbis plugin bug caused the vendor string to be changed to RC3.

esa372:

What program are you using the view the tag information?
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DreamTactix291
post Sep 25 2004, 04:29
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Just would like to add that the compile of 1.1 with the impulse_trigger_profile switch available from rarewares has a vendor tag of Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20040920 and not 20040629 like 1.1 RC1.


--------------------
Nero AAC 1.5.1.0: -q0.45
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QuantumKnot
post Sep 25 2004, 04:34
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QUOTE (DreamTactix291 @ Sep 25 2004, 01:29 PM)
Just would like to add that the compile of 1.1 with the impulse_trigger_profile switch available from rarewares has a vendor tag of Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20040920 and not 20040629 like 1.1 RC1.
*


Thanks. Change made. Actually, this is a bit confusing since the vendor tag hasnt changed in the source code. Hence the linux build with ITP is probably using the old vendor tag while the win32 builds use this new one. blink.gif
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esa372
post Sep 25 2004, 19:10
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QUOTE (QuantumKnot @ Sep 11 2004, 05:50 PM)
esa372:
What program are you using the view the tag information?
*

I found out what the problem was... Peter Harris was right...

QUOTE (Peter Harris @ Sep 10 2004, 09:32 AM)
The old Winamp Vorbis plugin would overwrite the actual encoder version with its version whenever you changed any of the tags. This doesn't change the quality of the encode, it only makes the encoder string incorrect.

Maybe whatever you're using to tag your Vorbis files has the same bug?
*

Apparently, this happens with several tag editors - JetAudio and Rio Music Manager both change the encoder version in the tag... as well as dbPowerAmp(!). Gotta be careful with these things!

Now I'm using Foobar2000 without any such trouble. biggrin.gif But, what a hassle it was to trace the problem!
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Garf
post Sep 25 2004, 19:16
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Prolly interesting to add:

Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20010816 (gtune 1)
1.0 RC2 GT1

Xiphophorus libVorbis I 20011014 (GTune 2)
1.0 RC2 GT2

This post has been edited by Garf: Sep 25 2004, 19:20
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Tang
post Sep 25 2004, 19:18
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Thanks for your EDIT of the 1st post QK... Very nice job...
smile.gif
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jwu42
post Sep 26 2004, 17:10
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Nice revision there QK - much appreciated biggrin.gif
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sergelac
post Sep 27 2004, 03:33
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i'd like to use the new 1.1 but i hate these switches (i use oggdropXPd)
can someone make a new compile of the new 1.1 with GT3b2 tunings ?

This post has been edited by sergelac: Sep 27 2004, 03:36


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esa372
post Sep 27 2004, 05:24
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Thanks for the update, QuantumKnot... excellent work..!

Just one question:
I see that the default setting for the 'microattack' is 2.7 - what (if any) is the default setting for the 'pre-echo'?

Anybody know? Is there a way to check this?

Thanks!

~esa


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QuantumKnot
post Sep 27 2004, 11:50
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QUOTE (esa372 @ Sep 27 2004, 02:24 PM)
Thanks for the update, QuantumKnot...  excellent work..!

Just one question:
I see that the default setting for the 'microattack' is 2.7 - what (if any) is the default setting for the 'pre-echo'?

Anybody know?  Is there a way to check this?

Thanks!

~esa
*


The answer is simple. The default value for impulse_noisetune is 0 biggrin.gif impulse_noisetune is a relative setting. It will add to whatever is the default for that quality level. To force more aggressive coding of short blocks, lower the impulse_noisetune to negative values (max negative value is -15).
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esa372
post Sep 27 2004, 15:39
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QUOTE (QuantumKnot @ Sep 27 2004, 03:50 AM)
The default value for impulse_noisetune is 0 biggrin.gif  impulse_noisetune is a relative setting.  It will add to whatever is the default for that quality level.  To force more aggressive coding of short blocks, lower the impulse_noisetune to negative values (max negative value is -15).

Thanks, QK!
biggrin.gif

Here's another question for you:
You said that...
QUOTE (QuantumKnot)
...the notion that you have to sacrifice something for a gain in speed may not be untrue here and some people prefer the safety and stability of the MSVC builds. If you want to be doubly sure that your new and shiny Ogg Vorbis files are 'stable' and 'safe', go for the MSVC builds.
Can you explain what this "something" is that we might be loosing by using the new ICL compiles rather than the MSVC? What are the potential drawbacks?

Thanks (again)!

~esa

This post has been edited by esa372: Sep 27 2004, 15:56


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QuantumKnot
post Sep 28 2004, 00:37
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QUOTE (esa372 @ Sep 28 2004, 12:39 AM)
Here's another question for you:
You said that...
QUOTE (QuantumKnot)
...the notion that you have to sacrifice something for a gain in speed may not be untrue here and some people prefer the safety and stability of the MSVC builds. If you want to be doubly sure that your new and shiny Ogg Vorbis files are 'stable' and 'safe', go for the MSVC builds.
Can you explain what this "something" is that we might be loosing by using the new ICL compiles rather than the MSVC? What are the potential drawbacks?

Thanks (again)!

~esa
*



I'm not familiar with the problems with ICL and in most of the cases where I've used it, it seems great. However, perhaps that something is 'certainty' or 'the warm and fuzzy feeling' biggrin.gif But yeah, I think people have pointed out some issues with (particularly older versions of) ICL cutting corners in some ways that aren't good. I'm afraid that's the most detailed answer I can give. I'm sure there are plenty of others who know more about this than me.
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esa372
post Sep 28 2004, 15:03
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Thanks for all your help, QK! biggrin.gif It really helps us newbies out!

One more question:
Regarding the 'impulse_trigger_profile' setting, you said:
QUOTE (QuantumKnot)
Note 1: There is the possibility that relaxed block switching may cause other quality problems and create suboptimal Vorbis files.  So use sparingly and with caution.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'relaxed block switching'. Are you referring to a lower profile number in the 'impulse trigger profile' string (ie, --advanced-encode-option impulse_trigger_profile=0 (or 1))? In other words, are you recommending the use of higher ITP values?

I was intending to use an ITP value of 3 for most (if not all) of my files, but your warning to 'use sparingly and with caution' caused me to balk. Any clarification would be great!


Also, I noticed that in the 'Vorbis History' section, it still reads:
QUOTE (QuantumKnot)
...John33 merged the sources to give us GT3b2, which is now the recommended Vorbis encoder.
Does this still hold true in light of the release of 1.1?



Thanks again. I hope all these questions aren't a bother... unsure.gif

~esa

This post has been edited by esa372: Sep 28 2004, 15:23


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