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aoTuV beta 4.5 released, a new aoTuv-beta for low bitrates
nostromo
post Nov 5 2005, 11:55
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There is a new aoTuv beta release(4.5) out.

Changelog:
QUOTE
aoTuV Beta4.5 [beta4 >> beta4.5]
# Reexamination of a low bit rate region, the addition of the code accompanying it, and tuning. Influence has this change below quality3.  Probably, in the especially low bit rate, it will be effective.


http://www.geocities.jp/aoyoume/aotuv/index.html
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de Mon
post Nov 5 2005, 12:09
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Let's call together: Gu-ru-boo-lez!!! biggrin.gif


--------------------
Ogg Vorbis for music and speech [q-2.0 - q6.0]
FLAC for recordings to be edited
Speex for speech
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rjamorim
post Nov 5 2005, 12:24
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QUOTE (de Mon @ Nov 5 2005, 09:09 AM)
Let's call together: Gu-ru-boo-lez!!! biggrin.gif
*


Erm.. as if Guru had big interest in low bitrate testing wink.gif


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Gabriel
post Nov 5 2005, 12:24
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QUOTE
Let's call together: Gu-ru-boo-lez!!!

Come on people! This is low bitrates area, you could test it yourself...
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manuelator
post Nov 5 2005, 12:59
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Thanks, i tried it...but sounds like metallic, the switch used is:
"-q-2" the nominal bitrate whas 32.

Any vorbis can encode at 20-25? (at 44 and stereo)
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de Mon
post Nov 5 2005, 14:15
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QUOTE (manuelator @ Nov 5 2005, 03:59 AM)
Thanks, i tried it...but sounds like metallic, the switch used is:
"-q-2" the nominal bitrate whas 32.

Any vorbis can encode at 20-25? (at 44 and stereo)
*


Did you compare it to aoTuV b4?

This post has been edited by de Mon: Nov 5 2005, 14:16


--------------------
Ogg Vorbis for music and speech [q-2.0 - q6.0]
FLAC for recordings to be edited
Speex for speech
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MedO
post Nov 5 2005, 14:29
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Is the encoding at high quality affected by this? I encoded a file at -q6 with both b4 and b4.5 and decoded again (with the same decoder), and the content of the decoded files differs (as shown by a quick md5 hashing).

MedO
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de Mon
post Nov 5 2005, 15:18
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QUOTE (MedO @ Nov 5 2005, 05:29 AM)
Is the encoding at high quality affected by this? I encoded a file at -q6 with both b4 and b4.5 and decoded again (with the same decoder), and the content of the decoded files differs (as shown by a quick md5 hashing).

MedO
*


Can you find out 'audio difference' between them in some audio editor? How much differs the size of encoded files?

This post has been edited by de Mon: Nov 5 2005, 15:20


--------------------
Ogg Vorbis for music and speech [q-2.0 - q6.0]
FLAC for recordings to be edited
Speex for speech
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Sebastian Mares
post Nov 5 2005, 15:27
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QUOTE (de Mon @ Nov 5 2005, 01:09 PM)
Let's call together: Gu-ru-boo-lez!!! biggrin.gif
*


He's already busy with Nero AAC.


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madoka@ex-sounds
post Nov 5 2005, 16:21
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wow, nice works laugh.gif


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kotrtim
post Nov 5 2005, 17:02
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QUOTE
Is the encoding at high quality affected by this? I encoded a file at -q6 with both b4 and b4.5 and decoded again (with the same decoder), and the content of the decoded files differs (as shown by a quick md5 hashing).


I've tried -q 4 , they can be considered bit identical

Beta4 = 3,489,542 bytes
Beta4.5 = 3,489,535 bytes

-q 2
Beta4 = 2,768,456 bytes
Beta4.5 = 2,805,795 bytes

The slight difference in -q4 might be bacause of the beta4 I used is P4 optimised, Optimised version might produce a file that has slight differences from non-optimised version.....this causes discrepencies in MD5, but it terms of perception quality, it is the same.

This post has been edited by kotrtim: Nov 5 2005, 17:02
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Leo 69
post Nov 5 2005, 17:10
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Lets wait a bit, maybe Aoyumi will give some explanations about this version and what we should expect from it. If it is OK, it would be wonderful if john33 compiles an OggDropXPd with this thingy inside. Is it possible, John ? rolleyes.gif
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Saoshyant
post Nov 5 2005, 17:26
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I will be testing this new release as well. I have high expectations about it, but aside the tuning at very low bitrates I don't suppose it's a major release, probably why it's numbered 4.5 and not 5.0 smile.gif

Aoyumi-san domo arigato

Ah, I wonder if one day you will try making the first known implementation of Bitrate Peeling. I know I would be happy about just better tuning at the higher bitrates, so that Vorbis could finally beat Musepack.


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Squeller
post Nov 5 2005, 17:39
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I use -q-2 sometimes on classical stuff for some reason. I have a symphony of 63 Minutes, which encodes @ 13.960.454 Bytes. With 32 kbps it does sound incredible!

Now I encoded it again with ao4.5.

I could not hear any differences/improvements at the problematic parts.

BUT theres a significant improvement in size:

aotuv4: 13.960.454 Bytes
aotuv4.5: 13.080.681 Bytes

This post has been edited by Squeller: Nov 5 2005, 18:48
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Rotareneg
post Nov 5 2005, 18:48
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Cool, I'll give this a try this evening since I use Vorbis at -q2.25 on my iFP-895 (with a hacked firmware to play Vorbis files that average less than 96 kbs.)
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Benjamin Lebsanf...
post Nov 5 2005, 19:56
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QUOTE (Rotareneg @ Nov 5 2005, 06:48 PM)
Cool, I'll give this a try this evening since I use Vorbis at -q2.25 on my iFP-895 (with a hacked firmware to play Vorbis files that average less than 96 kbs.)
*

Where can we find the firmware ?
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Rotareneg
post Nov 5 2005, 21:35
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QUOTE (Benjamin Lebsanft @ Nov 5 2005, 12:56 PM)
QUOTE (Rotareneg @ Nov 5 2005, 06:48 PM)
Cool, I'll give this a try this evening since I use Vorbis at -q2.25 on my iFP-895 (with a hacked firmware to play Vorbis files that average less than 96 kbs.)
*

Where can we find the firmware ?
*



http://www.misticriver.net/showthread.php?t=24020
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Aoyumi
post Nov 6 2005, 03:51
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QUOTE
Any vorbis can encode at 20-25? (at 44 and stereo)

For the moment, it is impossible.

QUOTE
Lets wait a bit, maybe Aoyumi will give some explanations about this version and what we should expect from it.

Please hear and judge in person.
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Nayru
post Nov 6 2005, 04:45
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I downloaded this and compiled it. After unpacking the .tar.gz I had to do chmod +x on the configure and install-sh scripts before building and installing it. Other than that, no problems.

I encoded a few files and in general they are free of artifacts, except one: The encoder seems to have a strong preference for removing high frequencies at low quality settings. The encoded files sound as if they were downsampled or a low-pass filter was used. This effect diminishes with higher quality settings, and above -q7 I can't tell the difference anymore. At lower settings I can distinguish the vorbis file from the original because of the relatively increased bass and decreased treble.

I am just curious if this was intentional in the design of the encoder? I do think it is less annoying than other types of artifacts, so maybe it's not such a bad trade-off.
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jorsol
post Nov 6 2005, 07:46
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I canīt really hear the diference, is hard to say that is a big improvement, ok I only made one test (at -q 0), so I canīt really say that is not effective and I donīt have a "extreme hear" so it just only my opinion.


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john33
post Nov 6 2005, 11:13
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QUOTE (Leo 69 @ Nov 5 2005, 04:10 PM)
Lets wait a bit, maybe Aoyumi will give some explanations about this version and what we should expect from it. If it is OK, it would be wonderful if john33 compiles an OggDropXPd with this thingy inside. Is it possible, John ?  rolleyes.gif
*

Yes, it's possible now I have the source, which wasn't available when I first looked. wink.gif

Extract from one of the text files included:
QUOTE
aoTuV beta4.5 technical information


The differences from the aoTuV beta 4...



  1.  M4 code of beta3 was deleted. M5 is added as what is replaced with it. The advantage of this method is that the result stabilized more is obtained. Instead, the change width of the bit rate becomes large rather than before. [32/44.1/48kHz only]

  2.  New M4 was added. There is this for the same purpose as M1. However, it is tuned up only in the low bit rate region according to work and individual parameters. [32/44.1/48kHz only]

  3.  M2 code was extended. This decreases a specific noise problem.  [32/44.1/48kHz only]

...and I mainly tune up tone/noise masking and noise normalization parameters.

The above change is applied below quality3.


2005/11/05
Aoyumi

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suur13
post Nov 6 2005, 11:16
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QUOTE (Nayru @ Nov 6 2005, 06:45 AM)
I downloaded this and compiled it.  After unpacking the .tar.gz I had to do chmod +x on the configure and install-sh scripts before building and installing it.  Other than that, no problems.


Hi, n00b here. Downloaded, chmod'ed, configured & compiled... no errors.
But where is the executable ? Or do I miss something here ?

EDIT: Yes I did dry.gif
It was libvorbis source. Oggenc source downloadpage gives me Error 404.

This post has been edited by suur13: Nov 6 2005, 11:46
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Nayru
post Nov 6 2005, 14:13
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QUOTE (suur13 @ Nov 6 2005, 05:16 AM)
EDIT: Yes I did  <_<
It was libvorbis source. Oggenc source downloadpage gives me Error 404.
*
Here is what I did:

Download libogg-1.1.2.tar.gz and vorbis-tools-1.1.1.tar.gz from http://www.xiph.org/downloads/
Download libvorbis-aotuv_b4.5.tar.gz.tgz from http://www.geocities.jp/aoyoume/aotuv/
Unpack everything.
cd libogg-1.1.2
./configure
make
make install
cd ../aotuv-b4.5_20051105
chmod +x configure
chmod +x install-sh
./configure
make
make install
cd ../vorbis-tools-1.1.1
./configure
make
Run oggenc/oggenc
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de Mon
post Nov 6 2005, 14:43
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QUOTE (jorsol @ Nov 5 2005, 10:46 PM)
I canīt really hear the diference, is hard to say that is a big improvement, ok I only made one test (at -q 0), so I canīt really say that is not effective and I donīt have a "extreme hear" so it just only my opinion.
*


Which file was bigger? aoTuV b4 or aoTuV 4.5? May be this improvment affects size while keeping quality same?
By the way, did you use one of the famous 'hard samples' or any randomly chosen 'easy sample'?

This post has been edited by de Mon: Nov 6 2005, 14:46


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Ogg Vorbis for music and speech [q-2.0 - q6.0]
FLAC for recordings to be edited
Speex for speech
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fpi
post Nov 6 2005, 15:57
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QUOTE (Aoyumi @ Nov 5 2005, 08:51 PM)
QUOTE
Any vorbis can encode at 20-25? (at 44 and stereo)

For the moment, it is impossible.


I know this is not reccomended, but with oggdropXPd (and I think also with other programs) is possible to go down to 12 Kbps @ 44.1 KHz stereo using ABR with:
Min. Bitrate = 0
Nom. Bitrate = 12
Max. Bitrate = 0

I think Min. Bitrate and Max. Bitrate = 0 means there is no limit, thus give a higer quality than CBR @ 12 Kbps.
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