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DirectX plugins, The options and the uses
atici
post May 13 2003, 04:39
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I discovered that Waves DirectX plugins (using with Adapt-X plugin on QCD player) like MaxxBass and L2 Ultramaximizer are awesome (w00t) .

What DirectX plugins of Waves and others can you recommend? And how should I stack them? Is there a rule of thumb in stacking?

And how should I set these for my equipment. They have pre-defined settings but is there anyone that extensively uses Waves plug-ins here?


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ProtectYaNeck36
post May 13 2003, 06:14
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Anything from Waves is great. I particularly enjoy C4, LinMB, MaxxBass, and L2. As far as a rule of thumb for stacking them goes, you should always have L2 as your final plugin and stack effects after compressors/multiband compressors such as stacking MaxxBass after C4 or LinMB. I'm no professional here, but I have been reading up on and playing with Waves plugins for a couple years now.
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yourtallness
post May 13 2003, 07:00
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I've asked this question elsewhere in this forum but didn't get an answer:

Are Waves plugins free? Is there a way to find only the plugins, or does one
have to download the full bundle?


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rjamorim
post May 13 2003, 07:21
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QUOTE (yourtallness @ May 13 2003 - 03:00 AM)
Are Waves plugins free?

No. Quite the opposite.
https://register.waves.com/waves/wvclients/...estore_main.asp

QUOTE
Is there a way to find only the plugins, or does one have to download the full bundle?


Some are available alone. Some are only available inside bundles.

This post has been edited by rjamorim: May 13 2003, 07:24


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yourtallness
post May 13 2003, 08:23
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Do u know of any free Direct X plugins?


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rjamorim
post May 13 2003, 13:43
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I don't remember of any.

Pretty strangely, IMO, free plugins usually come in the VST format.
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/plugins.php?lang=en

And - guess what - to adapt VST to DX, you'll need a commercial plugin. sad.gif


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atici
post May 13 2003, 15:26
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QUOTE
Are Waves plugins free? Is there a way to find only the plugins, or does one
have to download the full bundle ?


But eMule is free. wink.gif

Please don't share anything you don't have a right to though.


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n68
post May 13 2003, 16:06
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yup..


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yup...


btw..

a bunch of free directX plugins are aviable..
listed at some semi-pro.. musician site..
sorry.. but i ain`t got a link.. right now.
i post it when found...

btw2..

as mentioned.. the L2 from waves:

in the discussion here
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....2&hl=megabitmax

supprice me a little..
(as of the test resoult..)
the L2 rates normally.. but the megabitmax.. is
almost "getting thrue the roof"

am not shure what to say.. but i suspect this "test"
to be nothing more than PR..
3. of the most popular producers.. worldwide..
is using L2. (hardware)..



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n68
post May 13 2003, 17:41
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yup..


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QUOTE (yourtallness @ May 13 2003 - 07:23 AM)
Do u know of any free Direct X plugins?

yup...


here ya go...

http://www.directxfiles.com/plugins.htm

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kennedyb4
post May 13 2003, 17:46
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I started using the Waves Linear Phase Equalizer via Adapt-X a few months back.

Very nice. Beautiful interface and transparant audio.

Not free though. Not really.
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n68
post May 13 2003, 18:15
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yup..


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yup...


and heres another one...

http://www.databaseaudio.co.uk/index.php


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atici
post May 13 2003, 19:47
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I was quite happy with my QCD player because it was resource friendly. But now that I have Adapt-X running :
Waves Q10 Paragraphic EQ-> Waves MaxxBass-> Waves S1 Shuffler-> Antares Tube-> Waves L2 (Waves version 4.0, is there a newer one?)
I have an average 25% consumption of CPU power on my Athlon XP 2100+. biggrin.gif

But I love my new plug-ins wub.gif They rock.

I have a question. What's the internal resolution of Waves Plug-ins? Can I pass a 32 bit signal through them until L2 dithers and truncates to 16 bit using Adapt-X (I know Adapt-X supports transfer of 32 bit resolution between the elements in the chain).

The MPC SV8 decoder will support higher bit resolution decoding, right?

This post has been edited by atici: May 13 2003, 20:02


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n68
post May 13 2003, 20:56
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yup..


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QUOTE (atici @ May 13 2003 - 06:47 PM)
I was quite happy with my QCD player because it was resource friendly. But now that I have Adapt-X running :
Waves Q10 Paragraphic EQ-> Waves MaxxBass-> Waves S1 Shuffler-> Antares Tube-> Waves L2 (Waves version 4.0, is there a newer one?)
I have an average 25% consumption of CPU power on my Athlon XP 2100+.  biggrin.gif

But I love my new plug-ins wub.gif They rock.

I have a question. What's the internal resolution of Waves Plug-ins? Can I pass a 32 bit signal through them until L2 dithers and truncates to 16 bit using Adapt-X (I know Adapt-X supports transfer of 32 bit resolution between the elements in the chain).

The MPC SV8 decoder will support higher bit resolution decoding, right?

yup...


a. i belive.. version 4. ed. is the latest ones.

b. L2 specs:

48-bit internal processing
High Quality Re-quantization to 24, 22, 20, 18, and 16-bit
IDR (ninth-order noise-shaping)
ARC (Auto Release Control technology)
Full 48-bit fixed-point processing (dual precision) for true 24-bit dithered output
Supports all Pro Tools sample rates (44.1, 48 kHz)
Stereo use only


Q10 specs:

88.2/96kHz-ready for many native platforms
1 to 10 bands stereo equalization
Frequency response display
5 types of filters, bell, low/high shelf, low/high pass
Filter band control point for graphical modification
Control strapping
Versatile EQ Controls: Frequency, Gain, and Q
Low noise filters
Process Left and Right separately, strapped or mono


S1 "shuffler"

88.2/96kHz-ready for many native platforms
48bit precision dithered to 24bit output for TDM
Spatial-enhancement using psycho acoustic shuffling process
Width alters size of stereo image
Rotation alters level-balance without affecting center channel sound
Polarity and channel swap for correcting stereo errors
Intuitive stereo vector display shows effect of stereo alterations
Left/right or MS metering for monitoring stereo effect
Phase-compensation to avoid phasiness effects

as for maxxbass.. & antares tube...
i think its no limit.. they will simply prosses
that they are feed.

MPC... SV8.. very likely.. unsure.gif


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rjamorim
post May 13 2003, 23:36
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yup...

version 4... is indeed...
the latest one....

http://www.waves.com

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lucpes
post May 14 2003, 08:47
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QUOTE (rjamorim @ May 13 2003 - 10:36 PM)
yup...

version 4... is indeed...
the latest one....

http://www.waves.com

ph34r.gif

LOL. Subscribing though to the fact that the waves plugins are the best, I have to confess that I prefer the loudness & tone controls on a good preamp instead.
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atici
post May 14 2003, 14:50
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QUOTE (lucpes @ May 14 2003 - 02:47 AM)
LOL. Subscribing though to the fact that the waves plugins are the best, I have to confess that I prefer the loudness & tone controls on a good preamp instead.

They do entirely different things and used for different purposes. Those plug-ins do noise shaping. Like L2 does dithering or Maxx Bass alters the bass tones. The REQ (Renaissance Equalizer) is a non-linear equalizer. There're analog equalizer that does that but not the "decent" ones I could ever afford. I have to say I never enjoyed my music so deep, it is worth the whopping 25 % CPU time consuption. laugh.gif

BTW these plug-ins are also implemented in hardware AFAIK but cost a lot of money and are huge, although probably doing a lot better than the software plug-in biggrin.gif Anyway that's far beyond my budget. But you can't achieve the same effect with a regular decent pre-amp.

This post has been edited by atici: May 14 2003, 17:10


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SometimesWarrior
post May 15 2003, 00:59
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L2's nothing but a final-stage compressor, right? It's a combination dither and "MAKE IT LOUD" device from what I've seen. Since the plugin chain is probably re-quantizing to 16-bit for each component anyway, there's no need to use its 24bit->16bit dither, and it won't yield any appreciable resolution improvement. I used to have it on my Adapt-X plugin chain just for the hell of it, but then I took it off when I decided it did more harm than good. It was just chopping off more dynamic range on already over-compressed music.

I haven't had good luck with MaxxBass, either. After reading the manual, I concluded that it's designed for speakers with poor low-frequency response; generating upper harmonics allows previously unhearable bass to be heard. So, since my headphones already go down to 20Hz, there's not much need for it. Then I tried using it on some cheap PC speakers, according to the manual: find where the frequency response drop-off is, and set that to be where the MaxxBass harmonic generator starts, and optionally disable "original bass". But to my ears, it made no benefit. Low-frequency "jungle" basslines were still inaudible, and rock'n'roll bass drums just sounded muddier. As a low-frequency "boost", maybe MaxxBass is more effective than an equalizer, but as a low-frequency "extender", I was unimpressed.

However, don't let my grouchy grumblings stop you from enjoying your plugins! Tinkering with them is certainly a lot of fun, and it teaches you about audio applications as well. Reading their well-written manuals (all available online for free, if you use a Google search) will teach you even more. Plus, if you've shown more patience than I did, then you probably have found settings that make a real improvement in your music.
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rjamorim
post May 15 2003, 01:28
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Since SometimesWarrior touched the subject of re-quantization between any plugin in the chain, I would like to mention this:

Some people rave about iZotope Ozone because it does all the processing internally in 64bits precision - no need to re-quantize to 16 bits between each plugin in the chain. It's only one plugin, with the chain of modules inside (Tupperware inside Tupperware, to use Monty's analogy)

To make things clearer, I will quote the iZotope page (therefore, take it with a grain of salt)
QUOTE
it just sounds better because, once the signal goes in, it's all 64-bit processing until it comes out. It's technically impossible to get this sound quality and resolution by chaining plug-ins together.


I personally don't use it, because the audio processing I do with Waves here is more subtle, and only requires one or two plugins to get to the results I want. (I don't use them as Winamp DSP, either)

Regards;

Roberto.


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atici
post May 15 2003, 04:00
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@SometimesWarrior:

I have already been reading about the plug-ins I use actually (I found them on google as you said). Before I explain what L2 does, I want to say I am not a puritan about exact audio reproduction but rather I listen to my music I enjoy it. That does not mean I like distorting my music though, tonal shaping/alteration should be kept within reasonable limits. So I turn the plugins I use off/on and adjust the volume so that the gain some plug-ins apply won't make difference and see how I like it better. And I read/learn/know about them and only use them if I believe in their principles (like dither example).

My equipment is like this: Stereo-Link USB Audio-> Acoustic Research TDS-202 Sound Enhancer->AudioSource Amp Two->Infinity Alpha 40.

And as far as I read about these plug-ins, they seem to be based on rather sound principles. And I have to say, Waves or BombFactory or other professional plugins should not be confused with $20 plugins (like DFX) out there. Most of the stuff designed for the masses is hyped using the same idiotic terminology (check HDCD or XM site for instance). They use vague terms that would impress average Joe. On the other hand the manuals of these plugins are written in professional language and tells exactly what the plugin is capable of doing and what it cannot achieve. And if these plugins were all about snake oil then these companies would be out of business already.

The difference, as far as I could describe, in music when plugins are on are the additional warmth and tonal richness which are of course subjective. But my perception tells me the music has become so much enjoyable now. Some might say it's a placebo effect and it's about loving your equipment (and in this case your software) and the attachment to the new set of buttons/bells & whistles to tinker with...

QUOTE (SometimesWarrior @ May 14 2003 - 06:59 PM)
L2's nothing but a final-stage compressor, right? It's a combination dither and "MAKE IT LOUD" device from what I've seen.


Now about L2. It's a peak limiter and a noise shaping & dithering tool. The peak limiting is interesting, L2 adds gain to most of the song in the level you desire but for the peaks of the song that actually should not determine the average song volume it attenuates the volume without being noticeable using some sort of lookahead and predicting. It is some kind of local replaygaining.

Peak Limiting:

QUOTE
For mastering purposes, the peak level of the processed signal would normally be set to 0dB, or just below 0dB. Because a typical digital audio file of music contains many high intensity, short duration peaks, simple normalization of the file may still result in a low average signal level. Using the L2-Ultramaximizer however, it is generally possible to significantly increase the average signal level of a typical audio file without introducing any audible side effects...
ABOUT MAXIMUM LEVEL
The maximum level of a digital signal is governed by the highest peak in the file. Simple normalization finds the highest peak, then raises the entire signal so that this peak is at the maximum value. However, many of these peaks may be of very short duration and can usually be reduced in level by several dBs with minimal audible side effects. Those familiar with digital editing systems may even have proved this for themselves by "redrawing" some trouble-some peaks by hand. By transparently controlling these peaks, the entire level of the file can be raised several more dB than by simple normalization resulting in a higher average signal level. The L2-Ultramaximizer avoids the possibility of overshoot by utilizing a lookahead technique that allows the system to anticipate and reshape signal peaks in a way that produces the bare minimum of audible artifacts. Because there is no possibility of overshoot, L2 can be used with absolute confidence in situations where brickwall limiting is important.


Dithering and Noise Shaping:

QUOTE
ABOUT DITHER AND NOISE SHAPING
Dithering and Noise shaping are two independent, but complementary, techniques to improve the perceived quality of sound after it has been requantized.
As will be explained here in some detail, each technique is responsible for the improvement of a different subjective quality of the noise imposed by re-quantization. Therefore, each can be used separately to improve that specific quality.

Dithering is done in order to change the character of the quantization noise to more closely resemble analog hiss, rather than digital quantization noise. The main effect of dithering is to reduce (or, in case of type1, virtually eliminate) all correlation between the quantization noise and the original signal, thus reducing (eliminating) non-linear distortion typical of digital quantization noise. The dithering process 'exchanges' these distortions for a steadier analog-hiss quality signal. Noise shaping is done in order to optimize the distribution of overall noise energy across the spectrum. This optimization is according to the ear's sensitivity. This means a decrease in noise (whether distortion or hiss) in the ear's sensitive areas (1 to 6kHz), is 'exchanged' for an increase of noise in less sensitive areas (above 15kHz, toward Nyquist). Hopefully this has helped you see that in both techniques, the issue is about 'exchanging' the character and frequency content of noise (hiss & distortion) according to subjective criteria.


QUOTE (SometimesWarrior @ May 14 2003 - 06:59 PM)
Plus, if you've shown more patience than I did, then you probably have found settings that make a real improvement in your music.

Yes I really think I did. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by atici: May 15 2003, 04:23


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