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Splitting Flac Image Quality
lordemsworth
post Jul 30 2011, 20:39
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Hello all,

I've done some searches but I haven't been able to find this answer explicitly - and I was hoping that the knowledgeable people here could help.
When I first started to digitize my collection, I did flac images with cue sheets because my squeezebox supported it.

There was a version during the 7.x switch that it became flaky so I completed the activity by ripping to individual tracks.

I was building a new DIY NAS and I noticed that with 7.5.4 the splitting wouldn't work unless I used Windows. Which is fine.

I wanted to split the images into individual tracks and I know that Medieval Cue Splitter doesn't maintain file quality integrity.

Perusing the forums, I see that people recommend foobar2000 or CueTools - my question is, but splitting files, is the quality preserved, or should I just rip all 70 discs to individual tracks?

Amir
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mixminus1
post Jul 30 2011, 22:31
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Kitteh needs moar info...

Version 7.x of what?

What are/were you using to rip your CDs and encode to FLAC?

I've never used Medieval Cue Splitter, so I can't say whether or not it "maintain[s] file integrity", but what exactly do you mean by that?

...and yes, fb2k and CueTools will most certainly "maintain file integrity", i.e. keep your files bit-perfect lossless, when splitting from a .cue sheet.


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greynol
post Jul 30 2011, 22:42
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http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....showtopic=89303

This post has been edited by greynol: Jul 30 2011, 22:45


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lordemsworth
post Jul 31 2011, 01:34
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Thank you. This helps.

I was looking for help trying to not introduce jitter into the split. I now use dbpoweramp to rip my music into separate files.
Version 7.x of Squeezeboxserver.

Amir
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Wombat
post Jul 31 2011, 01:51
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QUOTE (lordemsworth @ Jul 31 2011, 01:34) *
I was looking for help trying to not introduce jitter into the split. I now use dbpoweramp to rip my music into separate files.
Version 7.x of Squeezeboxserver.

Neither foobar nor Cuetols add Jitter to any lossless file when splitting.

This post has been edited by Wombat: Jul 31 2011, 01:53
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lordemsworth
post Jul 31 2011, 02:10
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Thank you.
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Wombat
post Jul 31 2011, 02:28
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I even think jitter is the wrong term here. It seems in some places there is jitter used as explanation when Medival Cuesplitter breaks up the files at the wrong positions and not a frame boundary.
When you split with Cuetools and really have a bad CUE file that was created under some strange circumstances Cuetools even is warning you about such a problem.
Since you ripped all your cds correctly with CUE file Cuetools should have no problem and even creates a log file after splitting that lets you check the CRC against your original log. You can´t ask for more smile.gif

This post has been edited by Wombat: Jul 31 2011, 02:29
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damoresh
post May 11 2012, 06:46
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Even i have several albums with single flac and a .cue sheet. ripped securely with EAC. I wish to split them individually.
And my priority is that the quality shouldn't change a bit and also the track lengths shold remain perfect.
Is cuetools the best software for this as i want everything to be accurate?
And will the individual tracks be exactly similar if i had to rip the same CD to individual tracks?
Please clear these doubts..
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db1989
post May 11 2012, 06:57
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QUOTE (damoresh @ May 11 2012, 06:46) *
And my priority is that the quality shouldn't change a bit and also the track lengths shold remain perfect.
It won’t; they will.

QUOTE
Is cuetools the best software for this as i want everything to be accurate?
Any program that wasn’t completely broken would produce the same results, so it’s not “the best” in terms of accuracy, but it’s probably the one with the most complete set of features for dealing with cue-sheets and also the most accessible developer.

QUOTE
And will the individual tracks be exactly similar if i had to rip the same CD to individual tracks?
Yes.
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damoresh
post May 11 2012, 08:38
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Thanks
I tried splitting a single file of 401 Mb using cuetools It succesfully split the tracks and generated a accurip log file which looked something like this.
CODE
l
[CUETools log; Date: 5/11/2012 12:44:47 PM; Version: 2.1.4]
[AccurateRip ID: 000c0451-00263f5e-28110b03] found.
Track [ CRC | V2 ] Status
01 [f2687819|116b543b] (0+0/1) No match
02 [ebdd0357|ed8be1be] (0+0/1) No match
03 [1a6ecd5a|2e735434] (0+0/1) No match
Offsetted by 676:
01 [c2230611] (1/1) Accurately ripped
02 [1e9109fb] (1/1) Accurately ripped
03 [bd71c27a] (1/1) Accurately ripped

Track Peak [ CRC32 ] [W/O NULL]
-- 98.8 [F5DA5076] [9418DE63]
01 98.8 [CF088DB4] [34A15699]
02 91.7 [593DE540] [1ED5FB78]
03 98.0 [E21C74D2] [D323EDCC]

Now i don't understand this report at all Can you please explain to me what this actually means?
Are the tracks mathching those with the accurate rip database?
What does the CRC , v2, staus mean (0+0/1) No match??
What does this mean 01 [c2230611] (1/1) Accurately ripped
What is This Track Peak [ CRC32 ] [W/O NULL] ?
And when there are only 3 songs why are there 4 rows under track peak -- 98.8 [F5DA5076] [9418DE63] ??

Here's the original log file (shortened).
CODE
All Tracks
    CRC32 hash (test run)  : F5DA5076
    CRC32 hash             : F5DA5076
Track 01
    Pre-gap length : 00:02:00
    CRC32 hash (test run)  : CF088DB4
    CRC32 hash             : CF088DB4
    CRC32 hash (skip zero) : 34A15699
    AccurateRip signature  : F2687819
Track 02
    Pre-gap length : 00:03:05
    CRC32 hash (test run)  : 593DE540
    CRC32 hash             : 593DE540
    CRC32 hash (skip zero) : 1ED5FB78
    AccurateRip signature  : EBDD0357
Track 03
    Pre-gap length : 00:01:53
    CRC32 hash (test run)  : E21C74D2
    CRC32 hash             : E21C74D2
    CRC32 hash (skip zero) : D323EDCC
    AccurateRip signature  : 1A6ECD5A


Post Script- In the CUEtools under the extra menu there are 3 options
.Pregap 00:00:00
.Data Track 00:00:00
.Offset 0
I left this as it is ,should i have fillled any of these especially the offset because my drive has an offset value of +676.
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Porcus
post May 11 2012, 09:54
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QUOTE
Are the tracks mathching those with the accurate rip database?

Yes, after the bitstream has been moved 676 samples in one direction. The reason is that CD burners do not agree upon how many 0's to write before the first 1 (roughly speaking), so different pressings of the same bitstream, will start at slightly different times.


QUOTE
What does the CRC , v2, staus mean (0+0/1) No match??

Old AccurateRip didn't take everything into account. New database entries have a second checksum too. 0+0 means no match in either (before the 676 correction is done), and /1 means there is one entry in the database.


QUOTE
What does this mean 01 [c2230611] (1/1) Accurately ripped

That means that -- after moving the bitstream by 676 -- it matches the one in AccurateRip. Good news.


QUOTE
What is This Track Peak [ CRC32 ] [W/O NULL] ?

Track peak is in % of full volume, CRC32 is a checksum (different than the AccurateRip checksum) of the entire file, W/O NULL is the same algorithm applied but after removing nullsamples. (Which can be useful in case of offset differences -- if two pressings differ only in that one of them has a nullsample at the beginning which the other has at the end, they will have different CRC32 but same W/O NULL checksum.


QUOTE
And when there are only 3 songs why are there 4 rows under track peak -- 98.8 [F5DA5076] [9418DE63] ??

First row is the entire album as one.


This post has been edited by Porcus: May 11 2012, 09:56


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Gregory S. Chudo...
post May 11 2012, 16:28
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http://www.cuetools.net/wiki/CUETools_log


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CUETools 2.1.4
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damoresh
post May 11 2012, 17:10
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QUOTE (Gregory S. Chudov @ May 11 2012, 20:58) *


Thanks a lot.
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damoresh
post May 14 2012, 10:20
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In this accurip log that was generated after splitting the Doors album using CUEtools why is the audio offsetted by so many different values? -1268,-373,-309,-200,928,962? And of these which offset value did CUEtools use for creating my tracks.
CUE tools even generated a 426ms "00. (HTOA).flac" file HIdden track . Is it necessary to preserve this track along with the others or simply delete this. It contains no audio.

CODE
Pregap length 00:00:32.
[AccurateRip ID: 000f7a07-00899488-970a6d0b] found.
Track [ CRC | V2 ] Status
01 [e26f8448|ee15e564] (098+012/514) Accurately ripped
02 [8651060e|a9d95fa5] (098+012/515) Accurately ripped
03 [74fa225f|16433d7c] (096+012/518) Accurately ripped
04 [ed18d745|0509b32e] (098+012/524) Accurately ripped
05 [646ab9d3|0dfc039c] (098+012/525) Accurately ripped
06 [6020e63c|428d7e8d] (099+012/519) Accurately ripped
07 [3ddf3e74|cf99d450] (102+012/521) Accurately ripped
08 [4f2d7418|282adb14] (101+012/519) Accurately ripped
09 [ac5d17a9|fc0c0448] (098+012/519) Accurately ripped
10 [b888cf35|85630ede] (100+012/520) Accurately ripped
11 [56c10f6b|f772b18e] (095+012/498) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by -1268:
01 [8f58a664] (010/514) Accurately ripped
02 [f063e3f2] (014/515) Accurately ripped
03 [50680cbb] (014/518) Accurately ripped
04 [af7eece9] (013/524) Accurately ripped
05 [bc1ab9d3] (015/525) Accurately ripped
06 [ff68e63c] (011/519) Accurately ripped
07 [150607b4] (013/521) Accurately ripped
08 [3d72aad8] (012/519) Accurately ripped
09 [027517a9] (013/519) Accurately ripped
10 [ae12c379] (014/520) Accurately ripped
11 [88e52d0e] (011/498) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by -373:
01 [448ae8f7] (051/514) Accurately ripped
02 [3f5ca15f] (050/515) Accurately ripped
03 [59ddb29e] (055/518) Accurately ripped
04 [41224706] (055/524) Accurately ripped
05 [2e76b9d3] (053/525) Accurately ripped
06 [14a2e63c] (054/519) Accurately ripped
07 [97011044] (052/521) Accurately ripped
08 [116ea248] (054/519) Accurately ripped
09 [417317a9] (054/519) Accurately ripped
10 [d01b625e] (054/520) Accurately ripped
11 [ebe25df4] (047/498) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by -309:
01 [7389a437] (200/514) Accurately ripped
02 [659de61f] (200/515) Accurately ripped
03 [dc1d99de] (200/518) Accurately ripped
04 [18a25fc6] (200/524) Accurately ripped
05 [1776b9d3] (200/525) Accurately ripped
06 [0622e63c] (200/519) Accurately ripped
07 [b7c0ec44] (200/521) Accurately ripped
08 [52eec648] (200/519) Accurately ripped
09 [41f317a9] (200/519) Accurately ripped
10 [8d9b491e] (200/520) Accurately ripped
11 [64a1ccb4] (200/498) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by -200:
01 [6f937b20] (071/514) Accurately ripped
02 [cec50f36] (069/515) Accurately ripped
03 [3df26fb7] (067/518) Accurately ripped
04 [aba889ed] (070/524) Accurately ripped
05 [4c4ab9d3] (071/525) Accurately ripped
06 [8d70e63c] (068/519) Accurately ripped
07 [9787aef4] (067/521) Accurately ripped
08 [827d0398] (065/519) Accurately ripped
09 [6acd17a9] (067/519) Accurately ripped
10 [a8591e1d] (069/520) Accurately ripped
11 [1647d553] (060/498) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by 928:
01 [0bdd1f68] (016/514) Accurately ripped
02 [b1036aee] (016/515) Accurately ripped
03 [5598bb7f] (016/518) Accurately ripped
04 [a1da3e25] (017/524) Accurately ripped
05 [96eab9d3] (018/525) Accurately ripped
06 [8de0e63c] (018/519) Accurately ripped
07 [18bd3474] (017/521) Accurately ripped
08 [04ef7e18] (017/519) Accurately ripped
09 [b39d17a9] (017/519) Accurately ripped
10 [74476115] (016/520) Accurately ripped
11 [8ebcd54b] (016/498) Accurately ripped
Offsetted by 962:
01 [5cd472e2] (008/514) Accurately ripped
02 [55561774] (008/515) Accurately ripped
03 [42caae59] (009/518) Accurately ripped
04 [fc564b4b] (009/524) Accurately ripped
05 [a2b2b9d3] (009/525) Accurately ripped
06 [c62ce63c] (008/519) Accurately ripped
07 [ba232154] (008/521) Accurately ripped
08 [a7bb9138] (008/519) Accurately ripped
09 [43e117a9] (008/519) Accurately ripped
10 [48f353ab] (005/520) Accurately ripped
11 [332a8821] (007/498) Accurately ripped

Any help will really be appreciated.

This post has been edited by Frank Bicking: May 14 2012, 12:36
Reason for edit: Codeboxed.
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Porcus
post May 14 2012, 11:41
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QUOTE (damoresh @ May 14 2012, 11:20) *
why is the audio offsetted by so many different values?
[...]
Any help will really be appreciated.


With 'codebox' instead of 'code', you'll get more help dry.gif

CODE












(They are many because there are many different pressings with different offsets.)


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damoresh
post May 15 2012, 08:24
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And while splitting the tracks is it necessary to fill the values PREGAP, DATA track and Offset in the CUEtools extra menu.

This post has been edited by damoresh: May 15 2012, 08:25
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korth
post May 17 2012, 22:25
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QUOTE (damoresh @ May 14 2012, 10:20) *
In this accurip log that was generated after splitting the Doors album using CUEtools why is the audio offsetted by so many different values? -1268,-373,-309,-200,928,962?
These are other rips in the database that have the same structure as your disc. The offsets vary due to different pressings of the disc or rips without offset correction. Nothing to worry about. Just means the title is popular.
QUOTE
And of these which offset value did CUEtools use for creating my tracks.
Provided no offset was set to be applied the files are split with zero offset correction. It would tell you at the top of the log if offset were applied. The first results shown are your files and how many rips they match. These are at zero offset.
QUOTE
CUE tools even generated a 426ms "00. (HTOA).flac" file HIdden track . Is it necessary to preserve this track along with the others or simply delete this. It contains no audio.
It does represent the Pregap length 00:00:32 and may not be 100% digitally silent. If you discard the HTOA file you should edit the cue with the pregap to keep the original disc structure. It is possible to set CUETools so it doesn't create the HTOA file. This is not recommended but unless there is actual audio, a pregap should be fine.
QUOTE
And while splitting the tracks is it necessary to fill the values PREGAP, DATA track and Offset in the CUEtools extra menu.
No.

This post has been edited by korth: May 17 2012, 22:43


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damoresh
post May 18 2012, 06:54
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Thanks korth
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