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Is this r3mix.net?
dev0
post Aug 15 2002, 12:13
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QUOTE
A Newbie Guide to MP3
Key Tip:

When encoding MP3s, the ideal goal is to get the file to sound the same as the original, which is known as transparency. Achieving this and keeping the file small is a tough combination. Fortunately, the fine people over at r3mix.net have been working and tweaking this for MONTHS and the fruits of their labor is in your hands, in the form of presets in LAME. Use “--alt-preset standard” for very high audio quality and “--alt-preset extreme” for archiving respectively.


The Guide is quite good overall, but maybe someone should E-Mail the author and tell him about the differences between --r3mix (sad.gif) and the --alt-prsets (smile.gif)...

dev0
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layer3maniac
post Aug 15 2002, 12:22
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Well, Dibrom WAS one of the "fine people over at r3mix.net ".
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dev0
post Aug 15 2002, 12:28
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But WAS r3mix ever the home of the --alt-presets?
I haven't been in the "audiocoding-community" for to long, but I don't thnink so...
dev0
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Garf
post Aug 15 2002, 12:33
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QUOTE
Originally posted by dev0
But WAS r3mix ever the home of the --alt-presets?
dev0


Originally, the r3mix forums were the place were developments like this were discussed. This site came along once it became clear that r3mix's objective was not to promote the best setting but just 'his' preset.

I think to this day he still promotes r3mix as the one true preset for high quality audio.

So yes, the presets were developed there, but not by the 'r3mix.net' people smile.gif

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Lear
post Aug 15 2002, 12:48
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Garf

I think to this day he still promotes r3mix as the one true preset for high quality audio.


Not quite true, actually (not any more at least). From the news page at www.r3mix.net, regarding the --r3mix setting (emphasis is mine):

QUOTE
Undeniably improvements have been made by many people on the encoder since then, but the setting I'm using now is still as good for me as it was last year.  imo 'perfect' and can't be beat in quality : size ratio as of yet, for me.
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Garf
post Aug 15 2002, 12:56
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He says it is 'in my opinion, perfect', while he is well-aware of the flaws of the --r3mix preset. Moreover, he carefully avoids any mention of anything else besides --r3mix. If he urges people to compare, he might as well state what they can compare with.

Moreover, at the top right of the page you can still clearly see the old claim in the recommended settings: 'r3mix: best quality'

There is nothing better for him, because in his world, anything *besides* --r3mix doesn't exist.

I can say: 'IMHO, and for me, the earth is flat.' That doesn't make it flat.

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Jan S.
post Aug 15 2002, 15:01
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To the best of my recollection the alt--presets were developed AFTER a large crowd (almost everyone) of developers had moved away from r3mix forum to HA.
The forerunner, the dm-presets, were developed before HA though.
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JohnV
post Aug 15 2002, 15:16
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QUOTE
Originally posted by dev0
But WAS r3mix ever the home of the --alt-presets?
No, it never was.
--dm-presets started there. --alt-presets, especially the code level tweaked profiles (standard,extreme,insane) are completely different and all the development happened here.

QUOTE
Garf wrote
So yes, the presets were developed there, but not by the 'r3mix.net' people
--alt-presets were never developed at r3mix.net.


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nebuchadnezzar
post Aug 15 2002, 17:32
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All I know is that the r3mix site should be taken down. As a newbie, I came upon that site (actually, the Ephpod site links to it) and I took what I read as MP3 gospel. Shame on me I know... but luckily, after being about 10GB into the encoding process, I came across HA.

I'm kinda weird in that I'm a research nut, so I came across HA, but I wonder how many people who aren't such dorks like me, just find the info at r3mix and call it quits using r3mix settings.

Ephpod website links to http://www.ping.be/satcp/tutorials.htm as does the sticky in THIS forum when you read up on LAME settings in the MP3 general forum. Towards the bottom is the link to the EAC tutorial, which ANY newbie is going to read. This "tutorial" suggests r3mix settings.

This needs to be changed.


--------------------
----------------------
Nebuchadnezzar

Tools I've found useful in my MP3 quest:

- Exact Audio Copy (www.exactaudiocopy.de)
- Lame (www.mp3dev.org)
- Andromeda (www.turnstyle.com)
- Helium 2 (www.helium2.com)
- WinAmp (www.winamp.com)
- Stereo Link (www.stereo-link.com)
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Pio2001
post Aug 15 2002, 17:47
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I've compiled the presets history as a collection of links. I've posted it both here and at R3mix.net.
Unfortunately, r3mix.net is in maintenance-mode, and the FAQ section in here is moderator-only.
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cmyden
post Aug 15 2002, 18:30
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I just wrote an e-mail to satcp begging him to update the info.

chris
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JohnV
post Aug 15 2002, 18:58
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Pio2001
I've compiled the presets history as a collection of links. I've posted it both here and at R3mix.net.
Your history of --alt-presets were umm not very complete at all. Check the FAQ forum.


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Juha Laaksonheimo
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Pio2001
post Aug 15 2002, 19:27
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Thanks,
I'll update it...
...after having finished the CDex vs EAC test, setup a Ghost In The Shell DVD comparison page, setup a webpage showing different models of Othello games, and setup an index page for my website...
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dors
post Aug 15 2002, 20:31
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Guys,

what's up with you all? First you want to take down BladeEncs site, now it's Roel's r3mix.net! Boy would I be happy if every mp3 file out there would be encoded using --r3mix!

Roel started his r3mix forum, and I believe it started a whole lot of things. I still recommend it to newbies, as I feel that HA is a bit too techie sometimes.

Also, I personally would still use --r3mix if I'd still use mp3 (long live Vorbis!), because I have such lousy hearing that it sounds "perfect" to me.

BTW, Garf: we're not talking about measurable things here, we're talking about perceptual audio encoding, so YMMV!

To put it in other words: I found the perfect woman, I even married her. But I seriously doubt that it's your perfect woman as well...

Go show some tolerance, even if Roel wasn't the most diplomatic guy around. Show you can do better.
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Garf
post Aug 15 2002, 20:39
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QUOTE
Originally posted by dors

BTW, Garf: we're not talking about measurable things here, we're talking about perceptual audio encoding, so YMMV! 


Why, yes, that's exactly my point. It's exactly my gripe with Roel and r3mix. There is more to the world than r3mix. r3mix is *not* perfect for anyone. So by pretending it's the only thing around, you are helping noone.

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cmyden
post Aug 15 2002, 20:51
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Nobody is saying r3mix.net has to go away, it would just be nice if it were updated with info that reflects the developments in LAME.

If r3mix weren't such a well-known site, it wouldn't be a problem, but there are many people out there who visit it all the time, and leave thinking that --r3mix is the switch to use.

But would r3mix.net have to change it's domain name? wink.gif

chris
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dors
post Aug 15 2002, 20:58
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Come on, it's his site, it's his setting, so he has absolutely every right to promote it. You're not buying everything you read on the internet as being the one and only truth, do you? Like, e.g., NeoAudio being "all new"? biggrin.gif

And again: if everyone would "only" use --r3mix, we would have a lot more good sounding mp3s in the world!
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Garf
post Aug 15 2002, 21:03
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QUOTE
Originally posted by dors
Come on, it's his site, it's his setting, so he has absolutely every right to promote it. You're not buying everything you read on the internet as being the one and only truth, do you?  Like, e.g., NeoAudio being "all new"? biggrin.gif


That's the problem...a lot of newbies do exactly that.

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cmyden
post Aug 15 2002, 21:06
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I could see your point if there were any possible advantage to using r3mix whatsoever, in any scenario, under any circumstances.

But obviously debating whether he should or shouldn't is pointless, because as you say, it's his site and his right to post any info he wants.

It's just my opinion, and the opinion of many others, that it should be changed to better educate people on how to use LAME effectively.

I don't think it really matters anyways, as word will spread and outdated info is eventually bagged up and taken to the Internet curb.

chris
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dors
post Aug 15 2002, 21:07
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There are far too few newbies out there using --r3mix and way too many using 128 kbit/s.
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rjamorim
post Aug 15 2002, 21:13
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QUOTE
Originally posted by dors
Go show some tolerance, even if Roel wasn't the most diplomatic guy around. Show you can do better.


Sorry, Dors, but you won't find tolerance here. I gave up searching long ago.


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Garf
post Aug 15 2002, 21:32
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QUOTE
Originally posted by rjamorim

Sorry, Dors, but you won't find tolerance here. I gave up searching long ago.


The stake, or trial-by-water?

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rjamorim
post Aug 15 2002, 21:58
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Garf
The stake, or trial-by-water?


Too cold to use water. But the stake makes lots of mess as well... :-P


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Dibrom
post Aug 15 2002, 22:22
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QUOTE
Originally posted by dors
Go show some tolerance, even if Roel wasn't the most diplomatic guy around. Show you can do better.


Well, this is exactly what I did. I created a better preset, but I also told people it was not perfect. I created a better forum, but I also made it non-mp3 only.

I tolerate a lot of things, but one thing that I don't is people spreading false information when they know better.

Roel knows better, he just chooses not to acknowledge that he's wrong and that his site is inaccurate.

As Garf said, --r3mix is not about quality mp3s, it's about Roel and his switch. And really, I'd have no problem with that at all if he actually represented it that way. He doesn't though, he represents it as the be all end all solution for *perfect* mp3s. The reality is that it's quite far from this, even for many people who have so-called "average" hearing.

Furthermore, Roel has no interest in other codecs no matter what listening test show in regards to their quality or what type of advances they continue to make in functionality and usability. Try talking about the advantages of Ogg Vorbis or MPC or AAC over there and watch how he'll tell you they are useless (at least when he still posted).

R3mix.net is not about quality. It's not about objectivity. And despite it's banners which say the opposite, it's not about the search for the truth. It's about Roel and --r3mix. Always has been, and as far as I can tell, it always will be. I mean, come on, the site and the preset are even named after the guy here.. isn't that kind of an indication of what they're about?

The r3mix forums may contain some useful information in spots, but if you really look through, most of that information has come from 3rd parties, a lot of it even from people who are now key members of HA. The stuff which has come from Roel is all still almost entirely --r3mix centric.

So, you can go ahead and still point newbies to r3mix.net if you please. I think you're doing them a disservice though, because it's starting them off on the wrong foot. Almost all the stuff they'll end up reading on Roel's pages, they'll come to find later is inaccurate or just flat out wrong. Additionally, they'll also not be exposed to any of the latest developments in the audio encoding community, or to any of the significantly better alternatives to mp3 (Ogg Vorbis, MPC, or AAC), even when using the --alt-presets.

I realize that HA is lacking on guides and FAQs and that this is very important for newbies, but I promise you that we are working on this. As we speak right now, HA is coming close to unveiling an exciting new project which will not only address this matter (providing or at least attempting to provide relatively unbiased and objective information for newbies), but which will hopefully be the next step in bringing the entire audio community much closer together and really providing the resource necessary to leap ahead in the usability and functionality aspects of open source and end-user driven audio encoding.
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kennedyb4
post Aug 15 2002, 23:15
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QUOTE
Originally posted by Dibrom


R3mix.net is not about quality.  It's not about objectivity.  And despite it's banners which say the opposite, it's not about the search for the truth.  It's about Roel and --r3mix.  Always has been, and as far as I can tell, it always will be.  I mean, come on, the site and the preset are even named after the guy here.. isn't that kind of an indication of what they're about?


Problem is that a google search of mp3 quality takes you to r3mix still.

When there is a FAQ section with basic guides for eac and razorlame etc, we will be in a position to google bomb and get more hits.

God knows what complications this will bring but at least all the info will be accurate, and people will be exposed to objective testing measures.

The forum there is dead. There are rare newbie questions and of late a few trolls. Nothing creative or of real interest at all.

There was a time when r3mix was a great place for a newbie to learn a few things but this forum is quickly approaching the point where it can improve on this role without the ego problems that became so apparant as the community splintered.

Time to take over says I biggrin.gif
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