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RazorLame help, Trying to convert FLAC to MP3
CGC
post Feb 7 2010, 20:13
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QUOTE (lvqcl @ Feb 6 2010, 17:05) *
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Seems the best or extreme setting is restricted to 245. Is that correct?

No. It is approximate average bitrate.

QUOTE
Again, I am looking for the best possible output, VBR 320+

Not possible. Either VBR or 320 kbps.



Now trying EAC to MP3 and eliminating the FLAC step. I used the EAC Lossy Setup Giude with this string: -V 0 --vbr-new --add-id3v2 --ignore-tag-errors --ta "%a" --tt "%t" --tg "%m" --tl "%g" --ty "%y" --tn "%n" %s %d

Again I note the outcome is 2 channel stereo, 44.1 KHz. How do I force Joint Stereo?


Thanks
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greynol
post Feb 7 2010, 20:18
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QUOTE (CGC @ Feb 7 2010, 11:13) *
How do I force Joint Stereo?

There's no need.


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CGC
post Feb 7 2010, 20:32
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QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 7 2010, 14:18) *
QUOTE (CGC @ Feb 7 2010, 11:13) *
How do I force Joint Stereo?

There's no need.


Ok, does that mean it is not necessary; won't make a difference; can't be done? Just trying to learn.

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greynol
post Feb 7 2010, 20:58
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Joint stereo is done by default. The point to all of this really is that we shouldn't second guess the developers without a specific justifiable reason.

My recommendation has always been to keep things simple. I would personally recommend -V0 %s %d and have EAC do the tagging. I also use --noreplaygain because Replaygain information in the Lame header is completely useless to me and speeds up the encoding process, if only slightly. Lastly, --vbr-new is the default as of 3.98. Like with joint stereo, explicitly telling Lame to use it is redundant and unnecessary.


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CGC
post Feb 7 2010, 21:11
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QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 7 2010, 14:58) *
Joint stereo is done by default. The point to all of this really is that we shouldn't second guess the developers without a specific justifiable reason.

My recommendation has always been to keep things simple. I would personally recommend -V0 %s %d and have EAC do the tagging. I also use --noreplaygain because Replaygain information in the Lame header is completely useless to me and speeds up the encoding process, if only slightly. Lastly, --vbr-new is the default as of 3.98. Like with joint stereo, explicitly telling Lame to use it is redundant and unnecessary.


I really appreciate your time and patience but this is too advanced for my level of understanding of this process. I am probably better off finding an EAC guide that has all of these settings already incorporated into it. (Which I thought I had with the EAC Lossy Setup Guide) but apparently this is not the case.

I do not want you to invest more time into this for me but if you know of such a guide, I would appreciate it. I do not know the program well enough to invoke your recommendations as much as I would like to.

Thanks
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greynol
post Feb 7 2010, 21:16
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http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=EAC_and_Lame

It lays out seven options. I'm suggesting you follow the first one, especially since it is the simplest and it seems that you're after simplicity.

Regarding incorporating --noreplaygain, your additional command line options would just look like this:
CODE
-V0 --noreplaygain %s %d


This post has been edited by greynol: Feb 7 2010, 21:18


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CGC
post Feb 7 2010, 21:54
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QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 7 2010, 15:16) *
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=EAC_and_Lame

It lays out seven options. I'm suggesting you follow the first one, especially since it is the simplest and it seems that you're after simplicity.

Regarding incorporating --noreplaygain, your additional command line options would just look like this:
CODE
-V0 --noreplaygain %s %d


Great, thanks.

Can you give a brief description of the noreplaygain setting? What effect does this have?

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greynol
post Feb 7 2010, 22:02
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http://lame.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*...l#-noreplaygain


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CGC
post Feb 7 2010, 22:10
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QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 7 2010, 16:02) *


Ok. I believe I am set. I don't think I will ever fully understand but I am using EAC with your settings to rip my CDs to MP3 and they sound good to me. You all have been very patient and helpful.

Thanks again,

Chris
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greynol
post Feb 7 2010, 22:18
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You're welcome. smile.gif

If you tag and how and whether you put Replaygain information in the Lame header will not have any affect on sound quality.

This post has been edited by greynol: Feb 7 2010, 22:19


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CGC
post Feb 9 2010, 18:17
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QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 7 2010, 16:18) *
You're welcome. smile.gif

If you tag and how and whether you put Replaygain information in the Lame header will not have any affect on sound quality.



What might you recommend for normalizing? I currently use MP3Gain but only after I have put together a collection to be burned to CD or DVD. Or, is this something that can be incorporated in the ripping process, eliminating another step?

Thanks,

Chris
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greynol
post Feb 9 2010, 18:25
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A replaygain-based approach, but using an implementation that's actually widely supported. Putting RG information in the Lame header is not; putting it in an ID3v2 tag or APE tag (perhaps to a lesser extent) is. Altering the level of the audio data itself is universally supported, of course.

This post has been edited by greynol: Feb 9 2010, 18:54


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CGC
post Feb 14 2010, 17:31
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QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 9 2010, 12:25) *
A replaygain-based approach, but using an implementation that's actually widely supported. Putting RG information in the Lame header is not; putting it in an ID3v2 tag or APE tag (perhaps to a lesser extent) is. Altering the level of the audio data itself is universally supported, of course.



Hi,

I am back with yet another question. As I mentioned earlier, my goal is to create the best possible MP3 disc possible. This was brought about by my acquisition of The Beatles Remastered Stereo collection. I have been ripping these discs with the settings you provided but as I reach the end of this stage I realize that I may still be missing the mark, so-to-speak.

There are several songs in their catalog that play in succession. Also, I like to remove the dead-air gaps at either end of the songs and even, include fade-in and maybe a fade-out between songs. To accomplish this, in the past anyway, I would use the Sound Editor feature in my Roxio suite. But I realized that when I did this, I was required to save the edited file and I seem to remember that I have to select certain MP3 settings at that time which I believe would undo everything I have accomplished using EAC.

Would I be able to accomplish this with EAC settings changes or is there an editor software out there that would allow me to make the desired changes without losing my optimum MP3 settings created when ripping with EAC? Or, would I first have to rip to FLAC, let's say, do the sound editing then convert to MP3?

Thanks for your continued patience and help.

Chris
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Soap
post Feb 14 2010, 17:42
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Any competent player will play LAME MP3 and/or FLAC w/o gaps assuming there are no gaps on the source.
If there are gaps on the source you wish to remove, you should do so to a lossless file, not to a MP3 (or other lossy copy) as, you are correct, reencoding would be required.


This post has been edited by Soap: Feb 14 2010, 17:43


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trout
post Feb 14 2010, 19:23
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QUOTE (CGC @ Feb 14 2010, 11:31) *
Would I be able to accomplish this with EAC settings changes or is there an editor software out there that would allow me to make the desired changes without losing my optimum MP3 settings created when ripping with EAC? Or, would I first have to rip to FLAC, let's say, do the sound editing then convert to MP3?

No and No (exception: if the tracks are merged into a single file prior to encoding). Gaps are introduced at the beginning and end of a file during the mp3 encoding and decoding (playback) process.

The LAME mp3 encoder offers a method of defeating these gaps during playback. It stores encoder delay and padding information in the file header which enables a compatible player to compensate and provide seamless playback. If your player does not support gapless playback, then merging tracks is the only other option.

Wiki article about gapless playback.
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CGC
post Feb 14 2010, 19:31
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QUOTE (trout @ Feb 14 2010, 13:23) *
QUOTE (CGC @ Feb 14 2010, 11:31) *
Would I be able to accomplish this with EAC settings changes or is there an editor software out there that would allow me to make the desired changes without losing my optimum MP3 settings created when ripping with EAC? Or, would I first have to rip to FLAC, let's say, do the sound editing then convert to MP3?

No and No (exception: if the tracks are merged into a single file prior to encoding). Gaps are introduced at the beginning and end of a file during the mp3 encoding and decoding (playback) process.

The LAME mp3 encoder offers a method of defeating these gaps during playback. It stores encoder delay and padding information in the file header which enables a compatible player to compensate and provide seamless playback. If your player does not support gapless playback, then merging tracks is the only other option.

Wiki article about gapless playback.



I am using LAME with EAC. I guess I will not know if my players support gapless playback until I try a created disc in them, but, are there LAME settings that are needed to be inserted to accomplish defeating these gaps?

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Soap
post Feb 14 2010, 19:36
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QUOTE (CGC @ Feb 14 2010, 13:31) *
I am using LAME with EAC. I guess I will not know if my players support gapless playback until I try a created disc in them, but, are there LAME settings that are needed to be inserted to accomplish defeating these gaps?

There is an OLD "nogap" switch which works by breaking mp3s up on frame boundaries instead of strictly on track boundaries, but should NOT be used w/o an understanding of your needs. Most every player today is competent enough to recognize the gap information present in the LAME header by default.


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greynol
post Feb 14 2010, 19:40
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QUOTE (CGC @ Feb 14 2010, 10:31) *
are there LAME settings that are needed to be inserted to accomplish defeating these gaps?

NO


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CGC
post Feb 15 2010, 20:01
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I suppose it would be advantageous to find an editing program that would allow edits to FLAC files. After editing I could then encode them to MP3 using LAME. Would that work? I am looking at Sony's CD Architect 5.2d for this purpose but I do not know if it is compatible with FLAC.

Currently I do not use my computer to play my MP3s. I create MP3 discs which I am able to play in the home surround sound unit and the MP3 CD changers in our vehicles.
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trout
post Feb 15 2010, 23:25
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QUOTE (CGC @ Feb 15 2010, 14:01) *
I suppose it would be advantageous to find an editing program that would allow edits to FLAC files. After editing I could then encode them to MP3 using LAME. Would that work?

If you are talking about editing files to achieve gapless playback of, for example the Golden Slumbers medley on Abbey Road, then again the answer is no. As previously explained, gaps at track transitions that were not part of the original CD are a result of the mp3 encoding and decoding process. If your MP3 CD players don't support gapless playback of mp3, then no editing you do prior to encoding is going to change that.

This post has been edited by trout: Feb 15 2010, 23:27
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CGC
post Feb 16 2010, 14:55
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QUOTE (trout @ Feb 15 2010, 17:25) *
QUOTE (CGC @ Feb 15 2010, 14:01) *
I suppose it would be advantageous to find an editing program that would allow edits to FLAC files. After editing I could then encode them to MP3 using LAME. Would that work?

If you are talking about editing files to achieve gapless playback of, for example the Golden Slumbers medley on Abbey Road, then again the answer is no. As previously explained, gaps at track transitions that were not part of the original CD are a result of the mp3 encoding and decoding process. If your MP3 CD players don't support gapless playback of mp3, then no editing you do prior to encoding is going to change that.



Hi,

I have merged tunes (MP3 files) together in Roxio's Sound Editor then re-encoded it as one file when saving it and it has worked. I just would rather not use Roxio for the encoding. I know I my inexperience is showing but if there was a way to save the edited file as .FLAC, then I assume I could use LAME to re-encode it back to MP3. So, how far off am I with this scenerio?

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pdq
post Feb 16 2010, 16:34
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First, if Roxio allows you to save as .wav then there is no reason to use flac. Just reencode the .wav files with LAME.

Second, just a reminder that by reencoding you are decreasing sound quality. If there is any way possible to avoid it, such as if you have access to the original lossless files, then go that route instead.
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CGC
post Feb 16 2010, 18:14
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QUOTE (pdq @ Feb 16 2010, 10:34) *
First, if Roxio allows you to save as .wav then there is no reason to use flac. Just reencode the .wav files with LAME.

Second, just a reminder that by reencoding you are decreasing sound quality. If there is any way possible to avoid it, such as if you have access to the original lossless files, then go that route instead.


This is where I get confused. Roxio will not recognize a FLAC file. I do not think Audacity will either. Would I not want to use a program (if one exists) to edit the original lossless (FLAC) files before reencoding with LAME to preserve the best sound quality?

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db1989
post Feb 16 2010, 18:30
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There's no difference. Converting FLAC to WAV (i.e. PCM) is of course lossless, and any editor supporting FLAC would have to do so 'behind the scenes' anyway.
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CGC
post Feb 17 2010, 14:07
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QUOTE (dv1989 @ Feb 16 2010, 12:30) *
There's no difference. Converting FLAC to WAV (i.e. PCM) is of course lossless, and any editor supporting FLAC would have to do so 'behind the scenes' anyway.



It appears to me that WavePad Sound Editor, by NCH might do the trick. I believe it would allow me to edit FLAC files which I should then be able to convert to MP3 using LAME. This would hopefully maintain the sound quality. Yes?
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