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EAC - why are some CDs so noisy in the drive when ripping?
bluto
post Nov 24 2011, 00:31
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I have a TSSTcorpDVD+-RW TS-H653G drive (standard Dell) with which I am ripping CDs using EAC.

Usually in burst mode I get a rip speed of about 8-10x. Not great, but perfectly adequate for the odd CD now and again.
However, one of my CDs goes absolutely mental when ripped with EAC. It is a classical music CD (*) with no copy protection as far as I can tell,
but seems to rip a little faster than the others - up to 15x speed or so. The rip is accurate-rip verified, and seems error free, but the drive
makes one heck of a racket in the process. It sounds like it is about to take off unsure.gif
Even when aborting the rip, the drive keeps on spinning afterwards, making the same loud whirring noise. Only after trying to play the CD in,
say, Winamp, does the drive settle down again.

I have now set the speed setting in EAC to "16x" in the drive settings, and this lowers the extraction speed to only 7 or 8x on all CDs, keeping the
drive nice and quiet on this particular CD.

Couple of questions:

1) Why would this one CD make EAC rip faster, and so noisily when spinning in the drive? All my other CDs rip almost silently.
2) Can this loud whirring damage either the CD or the drive?

Bluto

(*) In case anyone has the same CD, it is "Rachmaninov Piano Concertos 2 & 3" by Ashkenazy, on label Decca Legends, cat. 466 375-2
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DVDdoug
post Nov 24 2011, 01:31
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The disc might be slightly out-of-balance.

The vibration is probably a little hard on the drive, but I wouldn't expect the disc to be damaged.

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Glenn Gundlach
post Nov 24 2011, 02:53
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DVDdoug is right about disc balance. If the vibration is excessive you could slow down the the max rip speed which would reduce the disc RPM. It would just take longer to rip. I don't use EAC. Can you select the rip speed?

G≤
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kwanbis
post Nov 24 2011, 03:41
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Interesting. This is happening with 3 used XBOX 360 games I bought, and I think is that.

Now, I wonder if the little scratches could be what make the disc unbalanced.


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Glenn Gundlach
post Nov 24 2011, 17:43
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QUOTE (kwanbis @ Nov 23 2011, 18:41) *
Now, I wonder if the little scratches could be what make the disc unbalanced.

I've seen discs that are not actually round and they shake when spinning faster than play speed. I don't think you lose enough mass with a scratch to make a difference. If you have some bad discs from burn problems you could try drilling a hole to throw it off balance and see what happens.

G≤

This post has been edited by Glenn Gundlach: Nov 24 2011, 17:44
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bluto
post Nov 24 2011, 19:33
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Thanks for all replies - much appreciated. I have indeed changed the drive speed in EAC down from "current" (no limit) to "16x" which has stopped the noise when ripping. My query was more academic than anything else, and the suggestions of an unbalanced disc sound very plausible, even if I can't see any issue with this particular CD. (It appears to be perfectly flat & round, with not even a hint of a scratch.)

The only other weird thing is that my CD drive actually spins faster anyway when ripping this CD than with other CDs. Can data be arranged on some CDs in such a way as to make EAC work quicker on them (burst mode)?

Bluto
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db1989
post Nov 24 2011, 19:37
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Not that I personally know of; however, I also experienced considerable variation in the speed attained on different CDs, even those that seemed flawless cosmetically, and wondered why exactly.
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YaIBetYouDo
post Apr 3 2013, 03:18
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Hey guys I have the cure for this, the CD makes that noise because it is off balance. I found a way to fix this, it involves putting the CD in an angle grinder !!

The CD will just fit into a standard 4" angle grinder like a cut off disc. Center it as best you can by eye then tighten it down gently.

Put on eye protection and gloves !!
The CD is thin plastic and not designed for 11,000 rpm angle grinders, there is always a chance it could have a hairline crack in it which when spinning at such high speed might cause it to tear apart, disintigrate and fly off at you.


Once you are suitably protected, spin it up then hold a piece of medium grit sandpaper to the edge of the CD, you wont have to apply much pressure, just fold the sandpaper a few times, hold it by the edge and use its own rigidity to keep it on the edge of the CD for about 10 seconds, it will abrade the CD down slightly and even up the balance of the CD. You should notice the edge of the cd is smoother and squared off and you should then notice a distinct difference when you put it in the drive but if it is still not silent do it again.

I just did this to two CD's. One of them was so bad EAC would not even begin to rip it, no way no how. Even at the slowest drive speed it sounded like a chainsaw was in there, EAC would not even find the track gaps never mind begin to rip it. After 10 seconds in the angle grinder it spun silently in the drive at 20X speed and gave me a perfect 100% no error image rip.
The other one was not quite as bad as the first one, EAC did begin to rip it but it was making such an awful noise I thought it would tear up the drive so I aborted the rip. I did the same thing to it with the angle grinder and it then also spun up to 20x silently, and ripped perfectly.

This post has been edited by YaIBetYouDo: Apr 3 2013, 03:53
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slks
post Apr 22 2013, 08:34
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Since you mentioned the other games are used Xbox 360 discs -

I know that when I was into console games (a decade ago) it was still common for rental places to use non-symmetrical stickers on the discs themselves to mark them. If they still have stickers on them, that could be what causes it to go off balance. Even if the sticker has been removed, maybe the glue left behind - or damage caused from some other method - is affecting the balance of those discs.

Also, I believe the Xbox 360 in particular follows the HD-DVD format, so the physical construction of these discs may be a bit different than a normal CD/DVD as well.


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Madgingertom
post Jul 20 2013, 13:17
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Nov 24 2011, 19:37) *
Not that I personally know of; however, I also experienced considerable variation in the speed attained on different CDs, even those that seemed flawless cosmetically, and wondered why exactly.

Though not using EAC, but using dBpoweramp in a custom built media centre, using an Optiarc (SONY) DVD drive I to had problems when ripping certain CDs, the noise and vibration was excessive and I had to abandon the rip. My solution was to use a different drive in the form of a Plextor drive housed in an Icybox caddy. The result on the bad CDs, was that the CDs ripped perfectly, no noise or vibration and ripped at 40+ speed. I too suspect that the CDs were out of balance and that some drives can cope with out of balance CDs better than other drives. Having two drives to rip from I now have a good chance of ripping successfully for archiving purposes. I also suspect that different materials used in the construction of the CDs can have a big difference in the ripping speed. Although out of 300 ripped discs so far I have 2 discs that refuse to rip in either drive unit, even using a different copy of the same CD, so I guess that these two CDs must be from a bad batch of CDs ?. Bad quality control I suspect.
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Apesbrain
post Jul 20 2013, 17:07
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QUOTE (YaIBetYouDo @ Apr 2 2013, 22:18) *
Hey guys I have the cure for this, the CD makes that noise because it is off balance. I found a way to fix this, it involves putting the CD in an angle grinder !!

I thought you might be interested to learn that there is an expensive, "audiophile" device to do exactly this:
http://www.audiodesksysteme.de/index.php?kat=10_17_6
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equi...3/audiodesk.htm

Even a video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZtJIHfHPUQ

No endorsement implied; just something I remember once reading about.
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db1989
post Jul 20 2013, 17:21
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They even called it the ďCD Sound ImproverĒ? Good grief.

I donít know about anyone else, but I feel that ďNo endorsement impliedĒ isnít strong enough in this case, and Iím a bit concerned about the fact that weíre giving free links to these frauds. The idea that shaving an optical disc down to a slightly different shape can remove limitations that hamper boring old unshaven CDs and therefore improve the quality of the data obtained, regardless of format, is patent nonsense. But of course, if you mention that your blades are diamond-ground, then cultural biases and the placebo effect can take care of endorsements for youÖ Oh, to be a marketer.

The second link is no better:
QUOTE
A few years back, a retailer friend returning from the Las Vegas CES ( I had not attended that year) said the funniest audiophile-tweaky thing he had seen was this "CD trimmer" that shaved down the edges of a CD to make it sound better. I chuckled along with him, but as I thought about it, the premise didn't seem all that silly. After all, I had already found that just about anything you did to a CD was likely to make it sound better -- cleaner/polishers, rubber bands (or green marker) on the edges, demagnetizing gadgets, anti-static liquid -- you get the picture.

Again, do we really need to give these people page-views? In case anyone likes stuff like this for the opportunity to poke fun, I have my doubts: itís too easy, and I feel more depressed than amused, but maybe thatís just me. I think Hydrogenaudio could do with having fewer clay-pigeon-shooting galleries like this.
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Propheticus
post Jul 20 2013, 20:05
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QUOTE
After all, I had already found that just about anything you did to a CD was likely to make it sound better -- cleaner/polishers, rubber bands (or green marker) on the edges, demagnetizing gadgets, anti-static liquid -- you get the picture.


When I first read this part of your quote I thought he was being sarcastic....looking at the site itself it seems he actually meant it. So yeah, I get the picture. He's gullible for believing demagnetizing or anti-static could affect an optical data system. My god, the stupidity there.

On a similar note: I've invented an ultraviolet LED-system that, when placed inside your PC, enhances the operation of your hard disk drives by balancing out the infra-red coming from warm computer components. This delivers a more balanced sound when playing digitally stored music from your HDD's.

This post has been edited by Propheticus: Jul 20 2013, 20:16
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Porcus
post Jul 20 2013, 21:48
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jul 20 2013, 18:21) *
I donít know about anyone else, but I feel that ďNo endorsement impliedĒ isnít strong enough in this case, and Iím a bit concerned about the fact that weíre giving free links to these frauds.


My first thought is that posting this link in this forum would likely be more for entertainment than of anything else.

Then OTOH this device promises a solution to a problem that is for real, namely mechanical noise. Though it will not alter the data[*], it could potentially make playback a bit more quiet, assuming your CD player is within hearing range. So maybe one should be more careful about this one than about totally obvious boguses.

But hey ... everyone would solve the problem by ripping the CD, right?


[*] except by maybe cutting through the sealing and allowing the CD to corrode ... ?


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Wombat
post Jul 20 2013, 22:46
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Yeah! CD trimmer, lol. A fellow of mine once ordered a trimmed audiophile label cd and at his PCs optical drive that ripped tons of CDs without a problem he was unable to finish even one track with endless retries before he gave up.
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pdq
post Jul 21 2013, 00:00
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Jul 20 2013, 16:48) *
But hey ... everyone would solve the problem by ripping the CD, right?

AFAIK this is a problem ONLY when ripping. Playback at 1x is so slow that vibration should be negligible.
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db1989
post Jul 21 2013, 00:15
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QUOTE (Porcus @ Jul 20 2013, 21:48) *
QUOTE (db1989 @ Jul 20 2013, 18:21) *
I donít know about anyone else, but I feel that ďNo endorsement impliedĒ isnít strong enough in this case, and Iím a bit concerned about the fact that weíre giving free links to these frauds.
My first thought is that posting this link in this forum would likely be more for entertainment than of anything else.
Which I thought too, hence this at the end of the same post:
QUOTE (db1989 @ Jul 20 2013, 17:21) *
Again, do we really need to give these people page-views? In case anyone likes stuff like this for the opportunity to poke fun, I have my doubts: itís too easy, and I feel more depressed than amused, but maybe thatís just me. I think Hydrogenaudio could do with having fewer clay-pigeon-shooting galleries like this.
What I mean is that there comes a point, at least for me, where making fun of stupid beliefs fails to outweigh the dismay I feel at the fact that people can hold them. When this is combined with the fact that Hydrogenaudio ends up supplying free viewsóand hence advertising revenue and boosts to their ranking on search enginesóto those who prey upon such absurd beliefs, this doesnít seem to be a justifiable cost for yet another cheap chuckle at the silliness of others. For those others who can still garner amusement from such things, that is. Youíve heard the saying that all publicity is good publicity, right? These charlatans probably hold that one close to their hearts.

QUOTE
Then OTOH this device promises a solution to a problem that is for real, namely mechanical noise. Though it will not alter the data[*], it could potentially make playback a bit more quiet, assuming your CD player is within hearing range. So maybe one should be more careful about this one than about totally obvious boguses.
Excuse me if I donít care one bitónot in the slightestóabout side-effects that might have some minimal sort of utility, seeing as the product is being marketed not for those reasons but instead on the basis of utter falsehoods that make a complete mockery of reason. Itís like saying Brilliant Pebbles are a valid product because they might make your room look more aesthetically pleasing and hence might improve your receptiveness to musical enjoyment. Thatís totally irrelevant in light of the much more pressing issue of their stated role being a fraud based on complete nonsense. Are you playing devilís advocate deliberately here? There are better uses even for that role.

In case it needs to be stated explicitly, Iím not claiming to speak for the site here, but I do think we have better things to do than to keep taking potshots at targets that are far too easy. Iíve done my fair share of this in the past, but as I said above, it gets old. There are better forms of humour that donít, however inadvertently, do the butts of the joke a favour by giving them cash for ads and bumping them higher on Google.
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Porcus
post Jul 21 2013, 10:23
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jul 21 2013, 01:15) *
I do think we have better things to do than to keep taking potshots at targets that are far too easy.

Hm. My comment was due to reading your feel that “No endorsement implied” isn’t strong enough in this case, I thought you meant the opposite – that you would appreciate a bigger warning sticker in order to keep TOS#8 at safe distance ... oh well. Maybe I got it totally wrong.

That said, still writing on a reply to the possibly “totally wrong” interpretation of your posting:


QUOTE (db1989 @ Jul 21 2013, 01:15) *
Excuse me if I don’t care one bit—not in the slightest—about side-effects that might have some minimal sort of utility

But maybe about whether the plausibility of parts of the claims might lead a reader into thinking it is endorsed to provide benefits that are for real? I was thinking aloud that maybe one should be more careful about the risk of doing “advertising” for products that are less obviously bogus.

This post has been edited by Porcus: Jul 21 2013, 10:29


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db1989
post Jul 21 2013, 12:17
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Ah, sorry, I missed the key bit in what you said:
QUOTE
So maybe one should be more careful about this one than about totally obvious boguses.
I misinterpreted this to mean that perhaps we shouldnít be so quick to dismiss it. Hence why I thought you were playing devilís advocate, since I know youíre perfectly rational the rest of the time. biggrin.gif Sorry.

So, in that case, we agree. I donít want the site to be giving any kind of promotion to nonsense like this. You made a point that, whilst I donít think it applies in this caes since the product is being marketed overwhelmingly for its woo-riffic aspects, is still a good point: absurd lies can sometimes be made to seem more plausible by association with trivial truths, especially to an audience who arenít well-versed in the supposed theory behind either.
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