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foo_dsp_fsurround, a new surround processor for foobar2000 0.9.x
pro_optimizer
post Sep 10 2008, 04:33
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QUOTE (Sounds Blast @ Sep 10 2008, 02:43) *
Nice idea pro_optimizer smile.gif will be on there soon


Thanks, I'll be waiting! smile.gif

QUOTE (NullString @ Sep 10 2008, 05:07) *
Quick question: Is the public rating board for surround albums? Like Jean Michel Jarre's Aero, or for stereo albums that sound good with this plugin?


I would not preclude multichannel albums - the more information, the better. I have added a "Release Remarks" field, where the release medium should be entered if it is some non-stereo source.
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mrbnatural
post Apr 1 2009, 22:41
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I'm having trouble using this plugin on Windows Vista 64-bit (Pentium Duo-Core 2.1ghz). When FB2K 0.9.6.3 loads, it throws an error that the DLL wasn't compiled for my system. Shouldn't 32-bit libraries be backward compatible in a case like this? I get this error with a LOT of plugins, btw. And, same error on my Windows 7 machine at home. I originally thought Win7 was the problem, but now it's throwing the same error on Vista, so ... is there a 64bit compiled version of this dll somewhere? I realize the source code is available, but unfortunately I don't have the resources to compile it myself anymore.

Update: the error is:
QUOTE
Failed to load DLL: foo_dsp_fsurround.dll
Reason: This component is not compatible with this version of Windows and needs to be recompiled with a newer version of the foobar2000 SDK; please contact the author of this component to obtain an updated version of this component.

And as I read in the Support section of the forum apparently this has to do with SDK incompatibility. Can anyone recommend a comperable alterative? I hate Channel Mixer.

This post has been edited by mrbnatural: Apr 1 2009, 22:47
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SpaceAgeHero
post Apr 3 2009, 17:20
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A new version with proper bass redirection would be nice.
I actually just want this so VU-Meter virtualisation shows the low frequency bar too. xD

Loving your dsp. Would still love to see it evolve. Lossless flac music just sounds mindblowing with it.
I recommend: Radiohead - In Rainbows

xD

Will soon be on your rating board as well.
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poisas
post Jun 28 2009, 18:58
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I am using it for more than 2 years smile.gif now i have to switch to digital plug in to receiver biggrin.gif no meaning to have this amaizing plugin anymore ;D receiver does the prologic job biggrin.gif

but anyone uses analog input, i recomend this plugin + noise sharpening it is realy mindblowing quality of surround...

QUOTE (SpaceAgeHero @ Apr 3 2009, 10:20) *
A new version with proper bass redirection would be nice.
I actually just want this so VU-Meter virtualisation shows the low frequency bar too. xD

Loving your dsp. Would still love to see it evolve. Lossless flac music just sounds mindblowing with it.
I recommend: Radiohead - In Rainbows

xD

Will soon be on your rating board as well.

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SpaceAgeHero
post Jun 28 2009, 23:18
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QUOTE (poisas @ Jun 28 2009, 12:58) *
I am using it for more than 2 years smile.gif now i have to switch to digital plug in to receiver biggrin.gif no meaning to have this amaizing plugin anymore ;D receiver does the prologic job biggrin.gif

but anyone uses analog input, i recomend this plugin + noise sharpening it is realy mindblowing quality of surround...


Huh?

Pro Logic? What do you mean by digital plug? Optical S/PDIF? Because as far as I understand only stereo can be transfered over S/PDIF.
So if you're using S/PDIF and switch on Pro Logic on your receiver fsurround is not effective. Pro Logic is an internal dsp routine of your receiver.

Actually what we need is something that can pack the multichannel audio as it is produced by fsurround to an ac3 stream.

Edit: Oh well, now I understand what you are talking about. Anyways IMHO fsurround sounds way better than Pro Logic ...

This post has been edited by SpaceAgeHero: Jun 28 2009, 23:23
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shakey_snake
post Jun 29 2009, 02:57
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QUOTE (SpaceAgeHero @ Jun 28 2009, 18:18) *
Because as far as I understand only stereo can be transfered over S/PDIF.
S/PDIF can carry 4 channels.

Some implementations allow multi-channel DTS over S/PDIF


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jahpal
post Jun 29 2009, 03:08
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I Think Foo Channel Mixer its a Good , DSP Plugin For Foobar . I Think You Should Try It And See. THANK YOU...
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GeSomeone
post Jun 29 2009, 11:23
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QUOTE (SpaceAgeHero @ Jun 29 2009, 00:18) *
Actually what we need is something that can pack the multichannel audio as it is produced by fsurround to an ac3 stream.

You might take a look at AC3 Filter. But keep in mind that converting your output to AC3 (Dolby Digital) is in fact lossy (trans)coding and AC3 is considered the "mp3 for surround sound".


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SpaceAgeHero
post Jun 29 2009, 17:19
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QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Jun 29 2009, 05:23) *
QUOTE (SpaceAgeHero @ Jun 29 2009, 00:18) *
Actually what we need is something that can pack the multichannel audio as it is produced by fsurround to an ac3 stream.

You might take a look at AC3 Filter. But keep in mind that converting your output to AC3 (Dolby Digital) is in fact lossy (trans)coding and AC3 is considered the "mp3 for surround sound".


Yes I tried AC3Filter but I couldn't get it to work with foobar2000 even though I had foo_input_ds enabled. Somehow AC3Filter doesn't recognize anything. In fact it doesn't even start like it does with MPC HC.
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boombaard
post Jun 30 2009, 08:46
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links are all dead.
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SpaceAgeHero
post Jun 30 2009, 18:12
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There should be all you need. Simply put it in your foobar folder.

fsurround
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rhester72
post Jun 30 2009, 18:41
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Anyone considered porting this as an AviSynth filter? It would be incredibly useful for automated conversions of Dolby Surround material to either discrete or Dolby Headphone.

I've taken a look at the SDKs for both fb2k and AS and it looks like a good bit of effort would be required to "normalize" fsurround into the AS plugin structure (though forcing real-time transparent float conversion from integer source is "free" in AS), and to be perfectly honest, I'm not a C++ guy - my strengths are C and scripting.

I have poked around quite a bit in the last few days to see if anything similar existed for AviSynth and unfortunately nothing comes close.

Rodney
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poisas
post Jul 5 2009, 11:38
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QUOTE (SpaceAgeHero @ Jun 28 2009, 16:18) *
QUOTE (poisas @ Jun 28 2009, 12:58) *
I am using it for more than 2 years smile.gif now i have to switch to digital plug in to receiver biggrin.gif no meaning to have this amaizing plugin anymore ;D receiver does the prologic job biggrin.gif

but anyone uses analog input, i recomend this plugin + noise sharpening it is realy mindblowing quality of surround...


Huh?

Pro Logic? What do you mean by digital plug? Optical S/PDIF? Because as far as I understand only stereo can be transfered over S/PDIF.
So if you're using S/PDIF and switch on Pro Logic on your receiver fsurround is not effective. Pro Logic is an internal dsp routine of your receiver.

Actually what we need is something that can pack the multichannel audio as it is produced by fsurround to an ac3 stream.

Edit: Oh well, now I understand what you are talking about. Anyways IMHO fsurround sounds way better than Pro Logic ...


if you don't know what is Dolby Prologic IIx ect, this is hardware or i don't know realy method for stereo to 5.1 or 7.1 upmix. Optical or coax connection does not matter witch one you will choose, i preffer coax connection for better connection. naturaly pc - receiver connection is PCM type, just transfering sound in 2.0 stereo mode. but receiver can "receive"
DTS or AC3 type of digital signal witch can cary more than 2channels, and you can send this type of signal from your pc smile.gif if you have movie with ac3, or dts soundtrack, you can choose to passthrouh this signal and receiver detects it and plays it. I was working in computer audio shop, had a chance to test few receivers, quality of prologic produced sound, depends on receiver mostly. If you take Yamaha for example than i will choose fsurround for better surround quality. I use Denon, cause i think it produses superb surround.

For your purpose to use foobar and fsurround, we need plugin that would alow to use direcshow filter ac3, because ac3 can encode "on fly" to dts signal. Problem is that with digital connection, i cannot think out method to transport lossless 5.1 sound to receiver biggrin.gif Sadly my denon doesnot have hdmi connection, so i don't know how that would work and what it can transport digitaly..
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SpaceAgeHero
post Jul 5 2009, 12:11
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Isn't Pro Logic a hardware based standard which should produce pretty much the same effect (NOT sound) on any receiver?

Anyways, can HDMI carry a raw multichannel audio stream (without using ac3 or dts)?
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Kipposaur
post Sep 16 2009, 00:58
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nice plugin, ty
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foggynovember
post Dec 22 2009, 01:25
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Very good plugin, and does overall a good job, i.e. what is expected of it.

An observation, though:
Don't try it with complex music like Adversus. I don't think it has something to do with the plugin, more the basic principle "it makes things surround". You just get murky echo-soup here. blink.gif
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antropoid
post Dec 22 2009, 18:01
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Does any one have any idea about cpu ussage of this plug-in. In three diffrentent systems (win7 2gb, Xp 1 gb and vista home premium2gb )when I use it cpu usage goes beyond 20%, when Im not using it it goes below 5%.
cheers

antropoid

This post has been edited by antropoid: Dec 22 2009, 18:02
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MusX
post Jan 15 2010, 21:04
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any chance for make your plugin able to amplificate to 200%?
please read:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/5-1-head...tml#post6316693
and maybe some switch to mute specific channels, like in channel mixer. it might be usefully for debug

This post has been edited by MusX: Jan 15 2010, 21:07


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2E7AH
post Jan 15 2010, 22:34
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QUOTE (MusX @ Jan 15 2010, 21:04) *
and maybe some switch to mute specific channels, like in channel mixer. it might be usefully for debug

use matrix mixer after fsurround
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MusX
post Jan 15 2010, 22:58
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works great! thanks. didn't know Skipy is still active foo programmer smile.gif


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pro_optimizer
post Jan 17 2010, 02:23
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QUOTE (MusX @ Jan 15 2010, 22:04) *
any chance for make your plugin able to amplificate to 200%?
please read:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/5-1-head...tml#post6316693
and maybe some switch to mute specific channels, like in channel mixer. it might be usefully for debug


If you do this, you may run into clipping with some music, and that may not be easy to notice. The best way is to use the good old volume knob...
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pro_optimizer
post Jan 17 2010, 02:29
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On the matter of updates, there is currently not much reason to change anything.

* Bass redirection, an often requested feature, is best solved by a plugin which handles the last output stage. The reason is that
a) it's intricate (see, for example, here)
b) it would be necessary for foo_ac3, foo_dts, and even for stereo playback if you have a sub-satellite system which can't do bass management by itself!

Therefore, this is the definitive job for plugins such as foo_channel_mixer and foo_dsp_xover (see http://xover.sourceforge.net/ for how complicated a solution can look like).

* Small position accuracy improvements are still possible, but will be barely audible (whether a source is 3cm further to the left, at 3m distance, will hardly make a difference), and must be thoroughly tested, because vanilla stereo shouldn't get messed with along the way. Therefore, this is on hold until I really have a lot of time for testing.

* A panorama mode (like PL2 has) is probably the best feature for the near future. This would wrap the front stereo around the listener, but must be done right in conjunction with the regular rear channel sounds. I will think this through soon.
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MusX
post Jan 17 2010, 11:35
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pro_optimizer have you tried this headphone dsp setup I've link here? it's really impressive smile.gif


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SpaceAgeHero
post Jun 29 2010, 18:12
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QUOTE (pro_optimizer @ Jan 16 2010, 20:29) *
On the matter of updates, there is currently not much reason to change anything.


Hey pro_optimizer hopefully you will still be updating my favourite foobar2000 component!

I have one small cosmetic request. Can you make it possible to turn clipping detection off?
Sometimes my logs are flushed with this even though everything is ReplayGain-scanned properly!
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pro_optimizer
post Dec 4 2010, 14:28
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There is now a (long overdue) new version of the plugin, taking into account some of the feature requests, and implementing some generalizations here and there (also, you no longer need libfftw). You find it here (attached to the first post).

It's largely rewritten, so necessarily beta for now (you can use it in parallel to the current stable version).

While Free Surround has always been close in design to what ProLogic II and the like were doing, this version is quite a bit more flexible and can in principle upmix to any speaker arrangement (up to fb2k's 16.1 limit), and offers more means to transform the sound field - so it can be used both for strict decoding (in the default settings) as well as for stereo enhancement.

Screenshot:


A few notes on the sound stage transforms - these are best thought of as geometric transformations of a real stage (usually spanned between front left and front right speaker):
  • Panorama wraps the sound stage (spanning 90 degrees between front left/right) around the listener, as if the instruments were arranged in a circle.
  • Dimension shifts the stage backwards or forward.
  • Depth scales the stage backwards.
  • Focus chances the size of the sound sources - large=diffuse/ambient and small=focal/localizable (should only be really noticable with many speakers).
  • The regular surround content remains intact and is transformed accordingly, as well.

The speaker setups with "(surround)" behind them are the classic home cinema setups (you can find them on the internet). 3-stereo and 5-stereo are like stereo, except that more front speakers are used. The 5.1 "legacy upmix" is basically the algorithm in version 0.3.5. The "half-circle" ones are for dense half-circle speaker arrangements (e.g., useful for plain stereo music that is mapped onto a circular panorama).

Foobar2000 does not have channels for "side front left", "side front right", "side back right", "side back left" (which you need for certain cinematic arrangements) -- instead it has channels labeled "top front left", "top front right", "top back left", "top back right", which I am using as substitutes (in that order) - that is, you need to connect your special side speakers to the outputs that are called "top xxx" by whatever output plugin you are using. Note that these are not the regular "side left" or "side right", nor your regular front/back speakers, but additional ones that sit in between. Likewise, foobar2000 does not have channels for "back center left" and "back center right", but instead "top front center" and "top back center", which are used as substitutes for these two.

I have little experience with bass redirection (and there are a few caveats with these systems), so if your OS, sound card and/or audio system can do this for you (and if you need it at all), you better use one of these instead. The FreeSurround implementation should be correct, but the levels that you are getting out of it might well need some hand tuning.


This post has been edited by pro_optimizer: Dec 5 2010, 04:25
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