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Does anyone know much about this onboard sound chi, ... the Realtek ALC650
spase
post Jan 15 2003, 01:41
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i have this sound chip on my mother board...

http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/product...aspx?modelid=30

i was wondering if anyone knew much about it...

i was also wondering if its about on par with or better than the santa cruz (what i currently use for everything... but could change if this on eis better)

i've never really taken the time to examine my hardware, so please be patient if these are easy questions.

thanks!


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ASmith
post Jan 15 2003, 02:16
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it's not so bad, problem is it's not hardware accelerated (it will cough up even during hard disk access) and if you play mp3s it comes out only in stereo, not stereo x2.
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spase
post Jan 15 2003, 02:46
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hmm... what do you mean cough up?

also, im mostly concerned with the s/pdif TOS link out... i assume its good quality there...

and as for stereo or not, i dont have any fancy recievers, and my main speakers broke today, and wont be replaced for about a month.


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ASmith
post Jan 15 2003, 03:14
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cough up, it will stutter during extensive disk access like loading your browser or a game.
sad to hear about your system, i wasn't aware it had a TOSlink out, not that i could use it though. rolleyes.gif
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RIV@NVX
post Jan 15 2003, 16:30
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QUOTE (ASmith @ Jan 14 2003 - 05:16 PM)
it's not so bad, problem is it's not hardware accelerated (it will cough up even during hard disk access) and if you play mp3s it comes out only in stereo, not stereo x2.

Well, I think it has 33 HW voices (when using 3.35 and later drivers), so I guess it is - or not?
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kritip
post Jan 15 2003, 18:59
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My modem dialing up causes the sound to stutter and pop, my modem is a PCI one and my computer spec is high,

Abit IT7 MAx2
P4 2.53GHz
et cetera

and it stilll skips, so annoyed i gave my santa cruz to my girlfriend! Other than that its good qaulity, i'd just like to know whether it resamples etc.

Cheers,

Kristian

EDIT

New drivers were released today for it!!!!!

This post has been edited by kritip: Jan 15 2003, 19:04
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RIV@NVX
post Jan 15 2003, 19:39
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Posted here, thanks for the info...
Can you check how much HW accelerated streams it have (using RMAA or Winamp2 out_ds 2.x.x)?

So, you use ALC650 now? Well, I think there is a non-resampling option, but I don't think it is enable by manafacturers.
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spase
post Jan 16 2003, 03:40
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QUOTE
Embedded 50mW/20ohm OP at front LINE output


i found that listed as a feature... is that like some sort of amp or a headphone amp (?!) or something?

just curious

thanks for the info guys... i wonder what the new drivers bring... sure wish they had changelogs.


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ddrawley
post Jan 16 2003, 04:21
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It's all about the IRQ's baby. Make sure the following devices DO NOT share with anything else. Yes, I know, Microsoft says you can.... and that is why you have sound skips and performance problems.

I can provide multiple links to support this.

Video
Sound Card
SCSI controller

Best not to share Lan card, but ok with 3com or Netgear.

Again, you may get it to work, but it will lag, skip, slow down performance.

IRQ sharing, just say no.

David
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Dibrom
post Jan 16 2003, 04:35
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This is the chip that is used on my motherboard (Supermicro X5DAE). It basically sucks.. I just borrowed a TBSC from one of the office computers in the meantime (till I get my delta1010 fixed, or pick up an m-audio revolution) because the sound quality of this thing is so horrible. Things are much better now with the TBSC. YMMV, but my advice would be to just stick with what you're using now (TBSC). I don't know about s/pdif performance because my motherboard doesn't offer that connectivity.
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spase
post Jan 16 2003, 05:26
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QUOTE (ddrawley @ Jan 15 2003 - 10:21 PM)
It's all about the IRQ's baby. Make sure the following devices DO NOT share with anything else. Yes, I know, Microsoft says you can.... and that is why you have sound skips and performance problems.

I can provide multiple links to support this.

Video
Sound Card
SCSI controller

Best not to share Lan card, but ok with 3com or Netgear.

Again, you may get it to work, but it will lag, skip, slow down performance.

IRQ sharing, just say no.

David

so basically i gotta go thru my BIOS by hand and edit the settings, instead of having it take care of it automatically?


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spase
post Jan 16 2003, 05:27
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QUOTE (Dibrom @ Jan 15 2003 - 10:35 PM)
YMMV, but my advice would be to just stick with what you're using now (TBSC).  I don't know about s/pdif performance because my motherboard doesn't offer that connectivity.

whats YMMV... also im gonna test the s/pdif right now... on preliminary tests tho, the realtek one had some crackling


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spase
post Jan 16 2003, 05:28
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QUOTE (RIV@NVX @ Jan 15 2003 - 01:39 PM)
So, you use ALC650 now? Well, I think there is a non-resampling option, but I don't think it is enable by manafacturers.

how do you get at this option?

or is it too low level to change it?


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spase
post Jan 16 2003, 06:03
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ok so here's the verdict...

Dib you ought to pay attention here... (the chip doesnt suck 100% now)

the new drivers released today (3.38) dramatically improved the sound to my ears, using some halfway decent philips headphones (philips SBC HP550... 8-30k is what it gives as response range)

also there is an option to change the s/pdif mode to 44.1 or 48k out... i will use this then for minidisc recording and use the TBSC for normal usage, as i think the sound quality is a little better.

however (and correct me if i am wrong) if i use foobar's new kernel streaming output, have it set to 16 bit and 44.1 k and use the s/pdif on the realtek, then the data should be unmodified after it is set from foobar.... basically it would be like sending the stream from foobar to the minidisc...

to me it is unclear whether or not the TBSC resamples everthing or what. given this ambiguity, it was hard to tell what was being sent thru the s/pdif on the TBSC, as the equalizer of the TBSC didnt affect it, but the environmental effects did... basically telling me that the data was put thru some sort of processor.

as for the realtek, the eq CAN affect the s/pdif data that comes from the kernel streaming, but it can be disabled... and the environmental effects are completely unavailable when the realtek is not the primary sound device.

anyhow, i'm not sure if this helps anyone, but i just thoght i'd share my findings.

[edit: spellings]

This post has been edited by spase: Jan 16 2003, 06:06


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Dibrom
post Jan 16 2003, 06:40
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YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

Also, I'd be rather surprised if the new drivers fixed the cracking and noisiness. I gather this is more of a hardware issue...

At any rate, the sound quality difference between the TBSC and this realtek chip (with the old drivers) is so night and day that I don't see a point in going back just to test the new drivers (which would mean I'd have to crack open my case again, move some jumpers around to reenable the onboard sound, etc, etc).

If you're happy with it though, then more power to you. Again, the s/pdif performance may be pretty good.. I can't test that though since there's no connector for it on my mb.
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spase
post Jan 16 2003, 07:07
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thats understandable... glad you like the TBSC... basically i have finally found a way to avoid changing volume levels and everything every time i record a minidisc...

QUOTE
I don't see a point in going back just to test the new drivers (which would mean I'd have to crack open my case again, move some jumpers around to reenable the onboard sound, etc, etc).


luckily i have an ABIT board with the wonderful softmenu III... jumperless all the way!

This post has been edited by spase: Jan 16 2003, 07:07


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mad_arab
post Jan 16 2004, 00:57
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QUOTE (spase @ Jan 15 2003, 09:03 PM)
ok so here's the verdict...

Dib you ought to pay attention here... (the chip doesnt suck 100% now)

the new drivers released today (3.38) dramatically improved the sound to my ears, using some halfway decent philips headphones (philips SBC HP550... 8-30k is what it gives as response range)

also there is an option to change the s/pdif mode to 44.1 or 48k out... i will use this then for minidisc recording and use the TBSC for normal usage, as i think the sound quality is a little better.

however (and correct me if i am wrong) if i use foobar's new kernel streaming output, have it set to 16 bit and 44.1 k and use the s/pdif on the realtek, then the data should be unmodified after it is set from foobar.... basically it would be like sending the stream from foobar to the minidisc...

to me it is unclear whether or not the TBSC resamples everthing or what.  given this ambiguity, it was hard to tell what was being sent thru the s/pdif on the TBSC, as the equalizer of the TBSC didnt affect it, but the environmental effects did... basically telling me that the data was put thru some sort of processor.

as for the realtek, the eq CAN affect the s/pdif data that comes from the kernel streaming, but it can be disabled... and the environmental effects are completely unavailable when the realtek is not the primary sound device.

anyhow, i'm not sure if this helps anyone, but i just thoght i'd share my findings.

[edit: spellings]

I don't get it... the only driver I can find is 3.53, is that fine? I'm using analog output, don't know if there's room for driver improvement on analog quality.
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ddrawley
post Jan 16 2004, 04:30
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In reference to the earlier IRQ question:

The default install of Windows 2000 or Windows XP will use ACPI. This seems like a good idea, since it allows more IRQ sharing. In the case of APIC ( advanced peripheral interface controller AFAIK ) it allows IRQs like 21, 22, 23 etc. My ABX smile.gif experience has been that APIC and the use of ACPI ( yes it is a power model, not a true IRQ spec ) make a machine run like a dog. There is no such thing as a free lunch.
If you press F5 during initial install, you can choose to install Windows 2000/XP in 'Standard PC' mode. You gain two critical advantages. First, there is much less IRQ sharing, it will try to give key devices their own IRQs. Yup, all your stuff on IRQ 11 was sucking the life out of your performance.
The other advantage is for you IT guys who like to make one Windows image, and use Norton Ghost to deploy it across several different machines. Yes, I said several different machines, and manufacturers if you like. You can use one image to do different machines with different chipsets, graphic cards, etc. With a little automatic plug and play detection, a few driver updates, you are up and running. No more starting from scratch.

NOTE : With Norton Ghost, you must use this command line to prevent partition resizing. If you don't, Ghost messes it up, and you end up with a non-bootable image on dissimilar computers. I have been using a starting partition size of 9 GB lately. You can use the Microsoft Sysprep utility to automatically expand the image to the full size of the target hard drive later.

GHOST -clone,mode=load,src=d:\my2kimg.gho,dst=1,sze1=f

There is more I can share, however, this is looking blatantly off topic, so I will end for now. The moral of the story is, if you don't mind your P4 2.8 Ghz running like a P4 1.8 Ghz, go ahead and IRQ share. As for me, I like the proven performance boost of 'Standard PC' mode.
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ddrawley
post Jan 16 2004, 04:41
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This is part of the M-audio AudioPhile 2496 manual. It makes mention of what M-audio thinks about IRQ sharing on a sound card.

Troubleshooting Tips for Frequently Asked Questions

Problem: No Sound.
Possible Cause 1: The Audiophile 2496 hardware or software device drivers are
not properly installed. See the installation sections of this manual for further information.
Possible Cause 2: There is a resource conflict between the Audiophile 2496
and another device in your computer. Check the Audiophile 2496 configuration
(Address, IRQ) against those of the other installed devices. If necessary, change the settings for the one or more of the devices.
Possible Cause 3: Your application software has not been properly
configured to use the Audiophile 2496 as its audio output device.
Possible Cause 4: Misrouted outputs in the Delta Control Panel. Check the
Delta Control Panel’s Patchbay/Router page to verify output routing assignments.
Also, make sure that if the output is routed from the digital mixer, that the mixer’s
faders, solo and mute controls are set up properly.
Possible Cause 5: Improper connections of the audio accessories. Verify
that the Audiophile 2496 analog audio outputs are properly connected to a digital
mix deck or external mixer/amplifier, or the S/PDIF Out is connected to an external digital audio device capable of receiving S/PDIF.

Problem: No visual activity on Audio Input volume (VU) meters of user
software.
Possible Cause 1:: The Audiophile 2496 input devices are not properly
selected in the user’s application software.
Possible Cause 2:: If the software is recording from the Audiophile’s
monitor mixer device, be sure that the mixer’s faders, solo and mute controls are set up properly.

Possible Cause 3:: Improper connections to audio accessories.
Problem: Repetitious Sound.
Possible Cause: An IRQ resource conflict. Often this will result in a small
segment of sound (0.5 to 1 second) repeating itself over and over, sometimes
completely locking up the computer. See the general troubleshooting suggestions at the beginning of this section.
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