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Topic: LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams (Read 44756 times) previous topic - next topic
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LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #50
Just for the record, Robert is looking at this issue and will be back with something for testing in the not too distant future.  In the meantime, the higher bitrate is not hurting quality but it may be spending unnecessary bits.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #51
Just for the record, Robert is looking at this issue and will be back with something for testing in the not too distant future.  In the meantime, the higher bitrate is not hurting quality but it may be spending unnecessary bits.


It's somewhere in calc_xmin() (in quantize_pvt.c). Move this function to a new file and compile it with MSVC compiler, and the rest with ICC.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #52
...
It's somewhere in calc_xmin() (in quantize_pvt.c)....

So I believe, but I'll leave that to Robert.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #53
From the sidelines, I found this discussion of the FP rounding and/or compiler-related differences fascinating. Although this was the discussion started regarding LAME 3.99 release I was glad to have read-through it (just like a recent topic about layman's FFT explanation) and wanted to express my appreciation to those involved on the member and developers for sleuthing and posting their information. This is why HA has always rocked for me =)
"Something bothering you, Mister Spock?"

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #54
Agreed Destroid.  This has been an interesting read.  I jumped back to find the start of the latest development.

And with that being said, maybe it's time to split the thread?  Little of this thread has been dedicated to the actual quality improvements/unimprovements of Lame 3.99.  It's been more about compiler optimizing and compiler output.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #55
I'm surprised this thread wasn't split a long time ago. I can't imagine that 99% of users who might see this release announcement and  consider updating to 3.99 have either the time or the energy to read through well over 300 posts. I would expect some discussion of new 3.99.x releases and updated Rarewares compiles as they come out, but the minutiae in this thread really belongs in a tech forum.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #56
The "minutiae" in this thread are actually useful information: the difference in bitrate produced by different compiles might have an impact on quality, still to be determined exactly, and the LAME header issues do have an impact on usability, I'm glad both discussions have been consolidated here, just learn to skip the parts not relevant to you, this isn't a forum for Joe Average anyway.

P.S.
Minutiae is plural, if you wanna show off your Latin at least do it properly.

EDIT: The P.S..
WavPack 5.6.0 -b384hx6cmv / qaac64 2.80 -V 100

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #57
Robert is currently working on a solution that would make LAME more, or less, "compiler proof", or at least the variations between compilers would become inconsequential. Obviously some testing will be required when he has a solution that is 'fit for purpose' and HA will be the first to know.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #58
Robert is currently working on a solution that would make LAME more, or less, "compiler proof", or at least the variations between compilers would become inconsequential. Obviously some testing will be required when he has a solution that is 'fit for purpose' and HA will be the first to know.


This implies that the exact piece of code in question has been identified. Please confirm that it is in quantize_pvt.c and maybe point to a more precise location.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #59
There is a test compile (32 bit) now available at: www.rarewares.org/files/mp3/lame3.99.5-Test.zip

While there is a small bit distribution difference between VC and ICL compiles, the final bitrate is the same on the files tested to date.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #60
This implies that the exact piece of code in question has been identified. Please confirm that it is in quantize_pvt.c and maybe point to a more precise location.

EDIT: See Robert's post, below.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #61
This implies that the exact piece of code in question has been identified. Please confirm that it is in quantize_pvt.c and maybe point to a more precise location.

The code was quickly identified last week in vbrquantize.c, which was affected by floating point model fast math.

http://lame.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/lam...amp;sortby=date (line 436)


LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #63
Here's that set of files again, encoded using the RareWares 32-bit LAME 3.95.5-test compile. The differences are very small now. lvqcl's compile still produces slightly smaller files, even at the lowest quality levels, but the differences in file size are generally only a fraction of a percent.

Code: [Select]
Aerosmith - Sweet Emotion.wav
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Allman Brothers - Melissa.wav
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Black Keys - Set You Free.wav
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Yo-Yo Ma - Boccherini - Cello Concerto No. 7 in G major, G480 I. Allegro.wav
                          -V0  -V1  -V2  -V3  -V4  -V5  -V6  -V7  -V8
3.99.4 (RareWares)        250  223  189  165  143  118  101    91    83
3.99.5-test (RareWares)  239  209  180  164  141  114    95    88    82
3.99.4 (lvqcl)            239  209  180  164  141  114    95    87    82

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #64
I checked Alex B's Liszt sample, and 3.99.5 behaves nearly exactly as lvql's MSV10 compile bitratewise (208 kbps for-V1, and 97 kbps for -V5).
I also checked the bitrate distribution for -V5, and the Encspot result looks pretty much the same Alex B gave us.

Thank you, robert.

Oops, sorry, I din't see JJZolx had the sample in his test.
lame3995o -Q1.7 --lowpass 17

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #65
This thread was an interesting read.

So just to be clear, this is now resolved? Should I grab the 3.99.5-test from RareWares, or wait for 3.99.5 proper?

Another thing I'm wondering, I saw some encoding speed differences earlier in the original thread this was split from.
Was there encoding speed differences with 3.99.5-test and 3.99.4 (lvqcl), how about 32bit vs 64bit builds?
Or was that stuff just completely unrelated?
made of radiation

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #66
This thread was an interesting read.

So just to be clear, this is now resolved? Should I grab the 3.99.5-test from RareWares, or wait for 3.99.5 proper?

Another thing I'm wondering, I saw some encoding speed differences earlier in the original thread this was split from.
Was there encoding speed differences with 3.99.5-test and 3.99.4 (lvqcl), how about 32bit vs 64bit builds?
Or was that stuff just completely unrelated?

I would be inclined to wait for the full release, if I were you. There could be further changes until then, but if you feel inclined to test, please go ahead. 

The speed stuff was unrelated, IRRC.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #67
Kilu, in summary, the encoding speed differences were between 3.98 and 3.99.  3.99 encoded slower than 3.98.  Through compiler optimizing 3.99's speed was brought up to par with 3.98.

Sure there is going to be encoding speed differences between 3.99.5-test (ICL), 3.99.4 (MSVS2010), 32 and 64-bit builds, but that's not what's on trial right now.  What's on trial right now is the output between all.

LAME: different compilers producing significantly different bitstreams

Reply #68
Alrighty, thanks guys.
I think I'll wait for the full release since I'm not in any kind of hurry, might as well wait a bit.
made of radiation