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Copying Audio Cd.... which way?, Ripping first or On the fly?
strangezero
post Aug 22 2003, 13:24
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Hi to all...

I want to copy some important audio cd's (important = rare and reference cd's) with the BEST possible way.... (concerning audio).

Is it better to :

1) Rip them in secure mode with EAC to wav's and them burn the wav's with nero

or

2) Select COPY CD from nero and copy them on the fly?

Thank you all in advance.... wink.gif


P.S. The cd's are in good (not perfect) condition.
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AgentMil
post Aug 22 2003, 13:29
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Use create image and cue in EAC and burn with software compatible with Cuesheets. I personally use CDRWin to burn audio tracks the only reason why I keep CDRWin on my computer is to burn audio CDs ripped from EAC using that method.

Laters

AgentMil

*EDIT*

Whoops obviously in *SECURE* mode in EAC tongue.gif

This post has been edited by AgentMil: Aug 22 2003, 13:30


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minix
post Aug 22 2003, 13:42
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QUOTE (strangezero @ Aug 22 2003, 02:24 PM)
1) Rip them in secure mode with EAC to wav's and them burn the wav's with nero
2) Select COPY CD from nero and copy them on the fly?

Even if you set the wrong settings for secure ripping in EAC, it won't be worse than Nero's copy.
If you do on the fly copies, it will be much more risky.

Well, if you want to copy the index marks, you'll have to make an image in EAC, or enable that option in Nero.

Then burn the cuesheet with any cue mastering program, or burrrn or burnatonce for non compliant cuesheets.

This post has been edited by minix: Aug 22 2003, 14:07
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kotrtim
post Aug 22 2003, 14:01
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If your drive can extract audio correctly with 0 errors
then I will recommend on-the-fly, it saves quite a lot of time

If u feel unsave about the quality, enable "jitler-correction" in Nero before copying



QUOTE
If you do on the fly copies, it will be much more risky.


no failure on-the-fly until now
set the ultrabuffer size to 80MB, then its save!

Once, when i burn an Audio CD in DAO mode
My writer writes a little faster than the read speed of my CDRom
after about 40% writing progress, the ultrabuffer in Nero is at 0% stage
I though I will burn a coaster that time, lukcily Nero seems to "pause" my CD writer and
buffer until the ultrabuffer is at 100% before continue writing!
Its a success

So I dont think on-the-fly copy is risky

This post has been edited by kotrtim: Aug 22 2003, 14:01
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minix
post Aug 22 2003, 14:19
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QUOTE (kotrtim @ Aug 22 2003, 03:01 PM)
If u feel unsave about the quality, enable "jitler-correction" in Nero before copying

Jitter correction in not necessary unless you have a crappy drive.
If you have a crappy drive you shouldn't make on the fly copies.

QUOTE
Once, when i burn an Audio CD in DAO mode
My writer writes a little faster than the read speed of my CDRom
after about 40% writing progress, the ultrabuffer in Nero is at 0% stage
I though I will burn a coaster that time, lukcily Nero seems to "pause" my CD writer and
buffer until the ultrabuffer is at 100% before continue writing!

Yes, that is called BurnProof, and is found in all writers faster than 12x.
That pause will leave a very small gap in the data stream. Could that cause any quality decrease? I don't know it, but if you take that disc to a pressing factory to replicate, it's possible that it's rejected.


The problem is that Nero won't warn you if there are ripping errors. EAC will tell you if there are errors.
If you want to do on the fly copies, and your reading drive reports C2 errors, use Feurio!. C2 errors will be shown, so you'll know the condition of your discs (the RAM buffer works better than in Nero, at least in Win98).
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strangezero
post Aug 22 2003, 14:32
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!!!! thanks for the quick and detailed replies....

I don't want to risk anything with the "on the fly" method (for these specific cd's) so i quess it's out of the question.

My cd-dvd/rw is pioneer A04 and my dvd/cd player is a BTC BDV212 (capable of secure mode and c2)

So if i create image and cue in EAC and then burn with CDRWin (any link for cdrwin? ... i never heard it before :'( ) i'll have a perfect copy of the original cd?
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mobius
post Aug 22 2003, 14:41
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QUOTE (strangezero @ Aug 22 2003, 05:32 AM)
any link for cdrwin?

Use burnatonce.

http://www.burnatonce.com/

It's free and no nonsense.


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minix
post Aug 22 2003, 14:43
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QUOTE (strangezero @ Aug 22 2003, 03:32 PM)
So if i create image and cue in EAC and then burn with CDRWin (any link for cdrwin? ... i never heard it before  :'( ) i'll have a perfect copy of the original cd?

Yes, if you configure EAC properly. (Forget about offsets).

Learn how to use "Compare WAVs" tool in EAC.
Rip with any program you want (EAC better) and rip the original disc. Compare the WAVs with that tool.
If they're equal, burn them with whatever program you like. If you want index marks, you'll have to make an image in EAC (a long WAV + CUE file).

CDRWin only burns at 1x in demo mode.
You can use Nero without problem (Burn Image).

This post has been edited by minix: Aug 22 2003, 14:44
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kotrtim
post Aug 22 2003, 14:43
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Thanks Minix ( for educatind me),
I know whats burn proof now!

you can use CDDAE to check your drive's quality
but nowadays, even crappy drive can extract audio CD correctly, am i right?

This post has been edited by kotrtim: Aug 22 2003, 14:45
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minix
post Aug 22 2003, 14:49
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QUOTE (kotrtim @ Aug 22 2003, 03:43 PM)
I know whats burn proof now!

Apart from the gaps left by BrunProof (or whatever is called by your drive), which I think they're not problematic (but I prefer not to have them), there's no reason to use max. speed if your burn is going to be stopped sometimes.

I mean: you're burning at 40x, and BurnProof has to be activated several times. This will slow down the process. Better use a burning speed slower than the reading speed. You'll save the time that the drive is stopped, and there are more chances that the disc has more quality at 24x than at 40x (not always)... and without the gaps.

QUOTE
but nowadays, even crappy drive can extract audio CD correctly, am i right?

Yes, that's usually the case.
Any modern drive has "Accurate Stream", which should avoid jitter correction problems.
Feurio's tests are better than CDDAE's. CDDAE will only compare repeated readings and show if drive announces "Accurate Stream". Feurio will test for jitter problems, and offsets will be considered.

This post has been edited by minix: Aug 22 2003, 14:58
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AgentMil
post Aug 22 2003, 15:57
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CDRWin is available at GoldenHawk. I also recommend burnatonce as well, but I always used CDRWin and it always has made perfect audio CDs for me time after time. Especially if you use EAC + CDRWin combo you can't go wrong burning audio CDs.

Oh yeah I though BurnProof/JustLink always left a small gap between the time it stops and the time it starts again. That was what I read from a website when I was looking into which CD recorder I was going to purchase. I can be wrong about nowadays CD recorders, but I do distinctly remember that being said although the gap was very very SMALL. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Laters

AgentMil

*EDIT*

AHAHAH point proven by minix about the gaps... thats why I use a slower speed to burn audio cds just in case that happens, although you can switch the technology off.

This post has been edited by AgentMil: Aug 22 2003, 15:59


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n68
post Aug 22 2003, 16:02
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yup..


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QUOTE (mobius @ Aug 22 2003, 02:41 PM)
QUOTE (strangezero @ Aug 22 2003, 05:32 AM)
any link for cdrwin?

Use burnatonce.

http://www.burnatonce.com/

It's free and no nonsense.

Gday...


yes.. why not use BAO.
for creating a image, and for burning..
cdrdao uses the paranoia lib.. so why not..

as of cdrwin.. *abandonware*..
beside.. cdrwin has it`s *isues*
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Pio2001
post Aug 22 2003, 18:50
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The "compare wavs" tool of EAC will tell you the smallest single bit of difference between your originals and your copies.
A "perfect" copy is not possible. You can perfectly copy all the "music", but because of offsets, the exact place where the audio track start and stops is undefined. But don't worry, the only questionable parts are small milliseconds of noise or silence and both ends of the audio tracks.

"Compare wave", without offset correction will tell "missing samples" or "repeated samples", because of the offset between the original and the copy, that can be up to 1500 samples. Check that these messages are always located either at time 0, or time t, where t is the lenght of the track.
An error in the audio itself will appear as "different samples" in the middle of the track.

Check the EAC website ( http://www.exactaudiocopy.de ) for more infos about secure ripping, and FAQ here for discussions.
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